Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

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bryan k
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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by bryan k » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:32 am

jasonfish11 wrote:I was wondering that too. I bet the vast majority of people will still pull it out given that is what they are used to doing.

Will it make me a jerk putting it back in to putt my ball after someone already pulled it out?
I hope not....because that's what I intend to do. Until everyone gets the hint and we all just start leaving it in the hole.

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by srogers13 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:56 pm

So the USGA decided to make OOB a play where instead of stroke and distance, you can drop near where the ball went OB, even in the fairway, with a two stroke penalty.
I will stand in the fairway, I want to be out of your range.

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by legitimatebeef » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:11 pm

Fake news. I just browsed the new shit and I think it's going to be a local rule option, to designate OB areas as "penalty areas". Not quite the same.

Anyways you sploosers should all be glad. Golf just got less mean and nasty. (By sploosers I mean all you people with your winter rules and preferred lies.) Not me. I am a hardass traditionalist. I like golf as it was when I found it. The 2019 version of golf will be decidedly easier. The pussification of golf if you will.

The only conceivable benefit to these changes is a better pace of play, but we all know that's not going to happen. Man is a creative animal. He will figure out new ways of keeping himself out on the course for five+ hours.
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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by GBOGEY » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:14 pm

srogers13 wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:56 pm
So the USGA decided to make OOB a play where instead of stroke and distance, you can drop near where the ball went OB, even in the fairway, with a two stroke penalty.
It's listed as a local rule but I can't imagine a typical course not adopting it. Interestingly it still makes OB and lost ball more penal than hitting into a hazard.

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by legitimatebeef » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:31 pm

I do like the change that allows you to keep using a damaged club. I get that rules need to cover all conceivable scenarios and prevent any possible exploitation but I can't imagine a scenario in which a player can damage a club in a way that helps, in any significant way at least.
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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by legitimatebeef » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:42 pm

If you ask me, the concept of OB needs to be respected. I have said it before--the distinction between hitting it into an iffy place, and hitting it off the property entirely, needs to be respected. Both in a spiritual sense, and also I just don't think it's fair for golf courses and golfers to treat other people's property like just more spaces for them to spray golf balls into. The penalty for sending your golf ball off the premises should be severe. What the hell is wrong with you people.
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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:50 pm

I honestly think the penalty for OB might be more severe in many circumstances now.

Normally when I hit one OB there are trees and junk in that area as well. So now I'm dropping in the trees and having to punch out and hit 5 from the FW? If I re-tee I at least have some chance of hitting 4 from the FW.
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by DougE » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:22 pm

jasonfish11 wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:50 pm
I honestly think the penalty for OB might be more severe in many circumstances now.

Normally when I hit one OB there are trees and junk in that area as well. So now I'm dropping in the trees and having to punch out and hit 5 from the FW? If I re-tee I at least have some chance of hitting 4 from the FW.
Totally agree. Hopefully, it's still an option to play a provisional.

I made 6 on a par 4 off a provisional yesterday and was able to shoot my best 18-hole score of the winter. If I had to play from where the ball was lost, getting to, or close to, the green with my 4th would have been much less likely due to the area the ball went into the woods (down the side of a steep hill with no visual of the green). Being a yard off the fairway with a clear view of the green was the much better option and I was able to "mulli-par" with the provisional for a 6.

Since most recreational golfers already drop somewhere along where they last saw their ball leave the playing area, I don't see a lot of pace of play benefit. All I see now are golfers who always played this way feeling better about cheating. And in recreational play, odds are good that the majority of those who drop "in the neighborhood" will CONTINUE to add a 1 stroke penalty....at best!

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:57 pm

DougE wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:22 pm

Since most recreational golfers already drop somewhere along where they last saw their ball leave the playing area, I don't see a lot of pace of play benefit. All I see now are golfers who always played this way feeling better about cheating. And in recreational play, odds are good that the majority of those who drop "in the neighborhood" will CONTINUE to add a 1 stroke penalty....at best!
Or they will drop out in the FW, which I see often.
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:03 pm

If a course decides to implement this rule will re-hitting still be an option? If so are you taking the 2 stroke penalty then electing to re-hit (ie you are hitting 4 off the tee) or is the normal stroke & distance penalties going to apply?

If the answer to the above 2 questions are yes, normal s&d then it will be the only time in golf that your election on how you decide to play after a bad shot will potentially cause you to take an extra penalty shot. That seems very odd to me.
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:07 pm

Even more odd. If you still have the option to re-hit, and you get the normal S&D rules (hitting 3 from the tee).

What happens when you declare the shot a provisional. Hit that one OB too, can you then say "oh look my 1st ball really was OB I'm going to take a 2 shot penalty from here guys and disregard that provisional."

Are you then hitting 4 from near where the 1st ball went out. Or is there some rule I'm not aware of forcing you to play the provisional if the 1st ball was in fact lost/OB? In which case you'd be dropping 5 hitting 6 from where the 2nd went OB?
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by legitimatebeef » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:51 pm

Fish, I believe you have and always have had the option of re-playing any shot with the S&D penalties.

I'm guessing there will be no provisionals for balls hit towards "penalty areas" just like with hazards.
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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:55 pm

So here is the larger list of rules changes for those that are interested (aka beef).

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-p ... anges.html
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:57 pm

legitimatebeef wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:51 pm
Fish, I believe you have and always have had the option of re-playing any shot with the S&D penalties.
Correct, I read it closer and it is 100% an option to drop with 2 strokes if the local rule is in effect.

Also the new OB rule will generally let you drop in the nearest part of the FW from where the ball went OB (no closer to the hole). So the tree issue Doug and I talked about is not really an issue.
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:03 pm

Keep it short stupid.

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by GBOGEY » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:33 pm

So if you play a provisional you cannot use the local rule, but you still have the provisional option.

So I understand it this way - you hit a big shot OB, you can drop on edge of fairway lieing (how to you spell lieing in golf?) 3. So no different than you hit a shot OB and then hit another shot to that spot in the fairway. So will make some interesting choices on my home course. Depending on the hole, some OB shots can also be very short shots. So not only would you be lieing 3 but have a long difficult approach shot, so you are better to re-hit or play a provisional. However, on one par 5 a long OB tee shot likely still has a chance at reaching the green or at least getting close - probably better to take the new rule in that case.

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:58 pm

Laying?
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by DougE » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:15 pm

GBOGEY wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:33 pm
So if you play a provisional you cannot use the local rule, but you still have the provisional option.

you hit a big shot OB, you can drop on edge of fairway lieing (how to you spell lieing in golf?)
Same as you spell it referring to Trump. LYING. Or, if you want it to be more golf speak, LAYING.

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:55 pm

I think people just get lazy with their pronunciation of laying.
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by GBOGEY » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:02 pm

Okay I get it. I think laying is correct. But do you say "what do you lie" or what do you lay"?

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by DougE » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:30 pm

"What do you lie?" IMO. However, you might answer "I lie three." or you could also answer, "I'm laying three." Either would be correct. (Unless of course, you are actually laying four, which would mean your were lying! :o :rofl )

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by jasonfish11 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:18 am

hmmm as you all know I'm by no means a grammar wiz. I think we need a ruling from beef.

But if you are talking about laying (as in what you do on a bed) I think it differs based on the phrasing of the question. Why this is I don't know (maybe because I'm clueless and doing something wrong).

Who do you lie with?
When do you lie down?
Where do you lay down?
How do you lay in bed?

All of these seem like they could be right to me, but I also feel I may just be wrong. Maybe it should be either laying or lie?
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by GBOGEY » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:59 am

Enough! Back to the rules. As I see it the changes can be summarized as follows:
1. If you ball moves by accident you can replace it without penalty - won't change how most people play
2. Rule changes about drops and reliefs from hazards - won't change how most people play that much
3. More areas may be marked as hazards - depends on course
4. You can ground your club and remove loose impediments in a hazard
5. You don't have to remove the flagstick
6. New rules around lost ball and OB

My guess is that only 4-6 really change how we all play and 6 is the big one - makes life simple for those what do I do moments when it turns out the ball is OB or lost and you can't go back to the tee. Anyone disagree?

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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by legitimatebeef » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:10 am

jasonfish11 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:18 am
hmmm as you all know I'm by no means a grammar wiz. I think we need a ruling from beef.

But if you are talking about laying (as in what you do on a bed) I think it differs based on the phrasing of the question. Why this is I don't know (maybe because I'm clueless and doing something wrong).

Who do you lie with?
When do you lie down?
Where do you lay down?
How do you lay in bed?

All of these seem like they could be right to me, but I also feel I may just be wrong. Maybe it should be either laying or lie?
Tricky situation but basically "to lay" is transitive (takes an object) and "to lie" is intransitive (no object). You lie in bed. But first you might lay a comforter on the bed.

But then you get into different tenses and shit starts to break down. Someone laid a comforter on me as I lay on the bed. :gross
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Re: Modernization of Rules - USGA/R&A

Post by legitimatebeef » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:14 am

GBOGEY wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:59 am
6. New rules around lost ball and OB

My guess is that only 4-6 really change how we all play and 6 is the big one - makes life simple for those what do I do moments when it turns out the ball is OB or lost and you can't go back to the tee. Anyone disagree?
Makes the game easier; naturally I don't like that. I don't think it's even going to speed things up. Most people make a mockery of the rules whenever they hit one off the planet anyways. The only difference is that they can now feel justified in their fuckery.

There's also the new drop procedure, from knee height. :fuckall

Pussification of the world. :nope
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