New from Titleist

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DougE
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New from Titleist

Post by DougE » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:05 pm

News from the PGA show:

Looks like the new TourSoft ball is replacing the NXT Tour and Tour S.

The Velocity ball is now available in 3 colors.

No mention of the Titleist AVX ball I have been playing lately. Last I heard it was still in test markets in FL, CA and AZ. Virtually all the feedback I have read has been highly positive. Expected some more news at the show, but so far, crickets. It's early though. Bought a dozen in Florida in November and then Titleist sent me some more to test earlier this month. So far, I love the ball, at least in the winter temps. Can only imagine it would be better in warmer temps. Hoping more will come out during the show.

The new Vokey SM7 wedges are out. Number one wedge on Tour and throughout retail, by far. And they get better and better. Some minor CoG movement, new finishes and some grind changes. There is a new black on black version. I'm not expecting huge differences from the SM6. I have been waiting to replace two of my SM6s. They have added a new grind, but taken away the bounce I like in the grind I play in my 58* SM6. The new D grind is offered in the loft and bounce I like, but the K grind, which I presently play in my lob wedge is now only available in 14* of bounce. I like 12. I'll try the 14*K and see if I have any issues flopping from tight lies. I was able to flop with the 12*K from nearly any lie. If I had the space in my bag I'd consider a super low bounce 60.04L to complement my 58.12K. But, I am already struggling to settle on 14 clubs, notwithstanding a second lob wedge.

Scotty Cameron has a few new models out. But, at 400 bucks or more for a new one, my 3 year old Scotty Newport 2 Studio Select will be just fine for a long while. The new ones are nice looking though. But no better than my 2014 model.

I expect some more news, but the show isn't even open yet. I'll be paying attention.

Titleist! :yess

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Re: New from Titleist

Post by legitimatebeef » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:11 pm

I got questions. What's the third color of the Velocity ball?!

Also, does the A in AVX stand for amateur?
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Re: New from Titleist

Post by legitimatebeef » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:14 pm

I expect some more news, but the show isn't even open yet. I'll be paying attention.

Titleist! :yess
You did good, that's a lot of info from just pressing your nose up against the windows!
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Re: New from Titleist

Post by DougE » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:23 pm

legitimatebeef wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:11 pm
I got questions. What's the third color of the Velocity ball?!

Also, does the A in AVX stand for amateur?
The colors are White, Pink and Orange.

As far as the AVX goes, I asked that question (shown below) to Titleist on the TeamTitleist boards.

I was wondering about the new AVX. Still trying to figure out where this ball fits into the whole scheme of things. So started thinking about the relativity of other Titleist acronym-named products to see if there was a hint about the positioning of AVX.

AP Irons=Advanced Performance CB Irons=Cavity Back MP Irons=Muscle Back

Pro V1 (and x) =Pro Version #1 (or #1, with an "x factor")?

AVX=Amateur Version? Something else?

I'm only guessing about the balls. I think the irons are all correct. Where else would I go to get the answer, but a TeamTitleist board? Somebody here must know. A little help? Anybody?


I got a reply from my TT buddy Abby who works for Titleist, but unfortunately, there was a bit of a focus change in her answer (below).

Abby L., Team Titleist Staff

January 16, 2018 at 8:30am
Hey Doug - In regards to Pro V1, our Vice President of Golf Ball R&D said the following in an article from PGATOUR.com about the initial seeding of Pro V1 in 2000:

"We had a Professional ball. We had a Tour ball. Then there was the Prestige ball. Needless to say, we had a lot of different balls on the market," Morgan said. "We really didn't know what to call it and came up with all kinds of crazy names, and as we got closer to bringing the ball out, we knew we needed a name for the USGA's Conforming Ball list.

"Back then the USGA list came out every six months, so you had to commit to a name for at least that long. There was a lot of discussion in-house and we still couldn't come up a name, so we defaulted to a lab name, which I made up -- although I thought it would only be a temporary measure. The 'Pro' comes from Professional, the 'V' is for veneer, which was the layer of Urethane, and '1' because it was the first.

"We gave it to the pros and told them it was just a lab name and that we were going to change it, but they said they liked it, so we kept it for that year. We discussed changing it again, but by that point players loved Pro V1."

www.pgatour.com/.../the-evolution-of-the-pro-v1.html

All the best,
Abby


I was not surprised that she did not give me an answer on the AVX. It has not yet been publicly positioned within the ball line and that may just be a working name for now. She did not even acknowledge it. And, there has been no indication even IF this ball will eventually make it to market, though based on the performance I have seen from it, THAT would be disappointing if it doesn't. It is on the USGA Conforming List. I love the ball.

So other than speculating myself that the "A" may stand for Amateur, I am not able to give you a definitive answer at this point. The fact that the ball is a Tour level, urethane covered 3 or 4 piece ball, presently priced a dollar or two more than a ProV might suggest it's even a step up from the ProV. There is a reason they designed it and are testing it, but no one outside of tight-lipped high-level Titleist employees seems to know what it is. The box itself only says "Remarkable Distance" and "Exceptionally Soft Feel," of which I can personally attest to. It has a proprietary "GRN41" Urethane Cover, 352 Tetrahedral Catenary Dimple Design (looks somewhat similar to Bridgestone's shallow dimples), a low compression core and a high-flex casing layer. There is not a whole lot more info out there, even on the website, however it IS listed as one of the balls in their line, albeit only available in test markets.

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Re: New from Titleist

Post by jasonfish11 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:33 pm

Are you at the PGA merchandise show?

If are you able to go test out skytracks (assuming they are there) and let me know your thoughts?
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: New from Titleist

Post by DougE » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:51 pm

Sorry, no, I am not at the show, just on the press release list, so get info as it is released to the public. Sometimes prior to release.

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Re: New from Titleist

Post by jasonfish11 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:56 pm

Oh that sucks. Next year you should see what you have to do to get an invite.

I heard it's like Willy Wonka's factory for golf nuts.
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: New from Titleist

Post by DougE » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:08 pm

jasonfish11 wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:56 pm
Oh that sucks. Next year you should see what you have to do to get an invite.

I heard it's like Willy Wonka's factory for golf nuts.
Every year I think I might go to the PGA Merchandise Show, but I never do. I can easily get an invite through a number of channels of which I have connections, but going to FL in January is hard, since I usually already go to Sarasota in November and February with my wife to see family (and play golf). Unless some company PAYS me to go there along with all the related expenses, I doubt I'll ever get there. Still waiting for Titleist to sign me up as a home-based sales rep, but that is one of the toughest jobs in golf to get. So, THAT won't be happening. :bawl

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Re: New from Titleist

Post by DougE » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:13 pm

Okay did some more research. Titleist has not mentioned the NXT Tour in any of their promotion of the new Tour Soft. However I am assuming that is the ball/level that the new Tour Soft replaces. Yet, they are comparing it to the Tour balls of Callaway, TM and Bridgestone: the ChromeSoft, TP5 and B330 RXS, calling it the softest ball in the category, as well as the longest. Somewhat confusing, as they make no mention of the cover not being urethane. In fact it seems to be a proprietary "ultra-thin 4CE grafted cover made with TCU Process Technology," none of which sounds like urethane to me. I'm sure it will all become more clear over the course of the show, but I am anxious to hear everything now! And no more mention of the AVX yet. Damn I wish I was at the show to ask in person.

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Re: New from Titleist

Post by Duke of Hazards » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:34 pm

Well, the NXT was Ionomer, so it looks like they developed some new Ionomer material that exceeds the 'softness' of the NXT line and puts it next to some of the competition's urethane mid/low compression balls (the ones you named above).

What's a bit odd is that the AVX is a low compression urethane ball, which puts it in direct competition to the same balls (Bridgestone B330 RXS, ChromeSoft, etc).

Maybe they decided that those 2 balls (Tour Soft and AVX) were too similar and opted to go with the less expensive ball and dump the AVX.
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Re: New from Titleist

Post by Duke of Hazards » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:36 pm

Or maybe it's not odd at all, given your report that Titleist is now pretending that the AVX never existed.
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Re: New from Titleist

Post by DougE » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:06 pm

Well actually, they are not pretending it never existed, because it is still featured on their site. They just haven't mentioned it in any of the press releases for the show, or acknowledged what their plans are after the testing in FL, AZ and CA are completed. I know it has gotten rave reviews across the board from virtually all Team Titleist testers. I'll be curious to hear the price point of the new Tour Soft. The AVX seems to be an awesome ball they designed, but with nowhere to fit into the current lineup without cannibalizing something already in it, most likely the ProV1.

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Re: New from Titleist

Post by Duke of Hazards » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:33 pm

I'm guessing the Tour Soft will be at the same price point as NXT line.

I tried the Chrome Soft. It smushed nicely off the irons, but for me it was quite a big shorter off the tee vs Pro V1. I'll continue to try different balls, but for me, the Pro V1 has been the best.
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Re: New from Titleist

Post by DougE » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:57 pm

Duke of Hazards wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:33 pm
I'm guessing the Tour Soft will be at the same price point as NXT line.

I tried the Chrome Soft. It smushed nicely off the irons, but for me it was quite a big shorter off the tee vs Pro V1. I'll continue to try different balls, but for me, the Pro V1 has been the best.
I find the Pro V1 to be the longest Titleist ball for me, except for the AVX. I seem to be maybe 5 yards longer with it off the driver and a few yards longer off irons. It's hard to say for sure, playing on the colder conditions I've been testing it in, but it is definitely at least as long as the Pro V1 and Pro V1x for me. That's why I really want to see it brought to market....at a price point no higher, preferably lower than the Pro V. Around the greens I think the Pro V still might have an edge, but ever so slight. I need to see in warmer temps with new wedges, come spring.

I have found and tried Chrome Softs. Does nothing for me. TP5s are good balls, but discernibly different feel than I like around the greens. The best other than Titleist Pro Vs/AVX, in my opinion is the B330RX or RXS. And the newest version of the E6 Speed seems to get great respect for a mid-level non-urethane covered ball. My main golf partner keeps coming back to them after trying just about everything else at that level. He's a picker so doesn't take much advantage of spin on approach shots, so the E6 is a great ball for him. If this new Titleist TourSoft has a price point similar, I'll be curious to see how it compares to the E6. Short game spin is one of it's highlighted features. And, distance has been proven to be Tour level.

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Re: New from Titleist

Post by MattF » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:57 am

Doug,

FYI:
there are three options - Thermocast, Thermoset and Thermoplastic (TPU). Thermocasting is a more expensive process and historically has only been done by Snell, Titleist and Taylormade. Thermoset is less expensive, but more common in the industry, and until recently, TPU wasn’t a viable option on tour level balls as the covers couldn't match the performance of the other two methods. TPU covers (also used in Callaway's Chrome Soft ball) have advanced significantly over the last 5-7 years and all things being equal, offer more spin off short irons and provide a nice platform for ball coloring.
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Re: New from Titleist

Post by DougE » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:57 am

MattF wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:57 am
Doug,

FYI:
there are three options - Thermocast, Thermoset and Thermoplastic (TPU). Thermocasting is a more expensive process and historically has only been done by Snell, Titleist and Taylormade. Thermoset is less expensive, but more common in the industry, and until recently, TPU wasn’t a viable option on tour level balls as the covers couldn't match the performance of the other two methods. TPU covers (also used in Callaway's Chrome Soft ball) have advanced significantly over the last 5-7 years and all things being equal, offer more spin off short irons and provide a nice platform for ball coloring.
I realized when reading the quote you sent that I just read that somewhere recently. Was it MGS or WRX? ...or somewhere else I saw it? I had forgotten it when I read the info on the new Titleist Tour Soft yesterday, but now it rings a loud bell. Thanks.

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Re: New from Titleist

Post by DougE » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:04 am

Got a little more insight on the AVX in a video from the PGA show. Though they didn't mention it by name, they hinted that they have a couple test balls out there that they are developing for 2019. There were some suggestions that these balls are already out there in "test areas" and a few players on Tour are playing them. A few TeamTitleist members have also received them (they sent me a couple sleeves a few weeks ago) and they are just sitting back and listening to feedback at this stage from anyone who has tried them. They have certainly heard some great stuff from just about everyone on TeamTitleist who has received them and piped up about them.

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Re: New from Titleist

Post by MattF » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:03 pm

DougE wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:57 am

I realized when reading the quote you sent that I just read that somewhere recently. Was it MGS or WRX? ...or somewhere else I saw it? I had forgotten it when I read the info on the new Titleist Tour Soft yesterday, but now it rings a loud bell. Thanks.
It was MGS when they introduced the new Snell MTB Black and Red.
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Re: New from Titleist

Post by MattF » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:04 pm

My mail on the AVX is that they're going to start releasing them to the rest of the country this year.
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Re: New from Titleist

Post by srogers13 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:32 pm

Look at what I found today.
IMG_0243.JPG
IMG_0243.JPG (1.93 MiB) Viewed 1229 times
IMG_0244.JPG
IMG_0244.JPG (1.92 MiB) Viewed 1229 times
Looks like the price point is the same as the ProVs.
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Re: New from Titleist

Post by jasonfish11 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:07 am

So when is Titleist going to start pricing their stuff reasonably?

Just needed a new glove and to save on shipping I bought 3 gloves and a dozen mg c4s for $43 (shipping included). Lol $10 cheaper than going to get a dozen pro v1s from a pro shop.
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: New from Titleist

Post by DougE » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:04 am

jasonfish11 wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:07 am
So when is Titleist going to start pricing their stuff reasonably?
You want the best, you pay for the best.

Titleist doesn't have to change their pricing structure. They have built a brand over 50 years or so, that stands at the top of the market. And enough people are willing to pay those prices as a result. Now, if MG tried charging those type prices, they would be laughed off the face of the golf earth. Doesn't matter that they have a good product too. They don't have the marketing, manufacturing facilities, R&D, quality control, or just about anything else Titleist---or any major proven brand---has invested in and built a quality brand image around. In fact, they basically use Titleist to sell their products. That's their claim to little fame. In their tests, MG-C4 goes as far or farther as a "previous" model Pro V1. And spins almost as much off a wedge. Yes, they are great balls for the price. They just aren't Pro V1s. Sorry. (Actually, I found a Tour-level ball that goes farther for me than a ProV1 too. It's a Titlesit AVX, but that's another story and it isn't any cheaper.)

MG gloves are quite good too. But when they start advertising and trying to break into the mainstream glove market and end up with a sizeable piece of the pie, I can guarantee they won't be selling for 5 or 10 bucks anymore. To compete with the big boys costs money. Again, I admit, they make a very nice glove. I have used them in the past. They found a factory on the other side of the world to make them at a really good cost. And with no major overhead, marketing or promotion costs, and no outside sales staff to sell them, it's easy to sell them at such a low rate. But again, as far as gloves go, Titleist and Footjoy got to where they are by building a solid brand through quality products, and major league marketing. And they control of their manufacturing facilities.

I hear and agree that you saved a lot of money by buying from MG. And I would bet you got pretty good products for your money. But, Titleist is not too worried about MG at this point, and I doubt they'll be reducing their prices anytime soon. So don't hold your breath. As far as MG goes, you probably do get a lot more than you pay for, so it's all good. :thumbs

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Re: New from Titleist

Post by legitimatebeef » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:47 am

jasonfish11 wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:07 am
So when is Titleist going to start pricing their stuff reasonably?

Just needed a new glove and to save on shipping I bought 3 gloves and a dozen mg c4s for $43 (shipping included). Lol $10 cheaper than going to get a dozen pro v1s from a pro shop.
Are you a member of the Costco club? They sell Callaway leather gloves, 4 for $25!!! That has got to be the best deal in all of golf. You can even order them online.
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Re: New from Titleist

Post by legitimatebeef » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:51 am

Sorry to foul up this thread with talk of other OEMs but I am sorry, while I like Titleist products I feel they overcharge to pump up their "perceived value", much like many other luxury brands do. No different from a Honma or PXG. :puke
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Re: New from Titleist

Post by jasonfish11 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:24 pm

legitimatebeef wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:47 am
jasonfish11 wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:07 am
So when is Titleist going to start pricing their stuff reasonably?

Just needed a new glove and to save on shipping I bought 3 gloves and a dozen mg c4s for $43 (shipping included). Lol $10 cheaper than going to get a dozen pro v1s from a pro shop.
Are you a member of the Costco club? They sell Callaway leather gloves, 4 for $25!!! That has got to be the best deal in all of golf. You can even order them online.
Mg gloves are $4.99 each. So 5 for $25, and no membership fee.
Keep it short stupid.

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