2018-2019 Winter Support Group

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legitimatebeef
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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by legitimatebeef » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:12 pm

Yeah JP. As you people would say: What's Wot's all this then?
Build a bridge and get over it.

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by DougE » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:09 pm

I finally got out to play a few holes today in Florida. Alls I can say is, don't take a month off from golf if you expect to play at the level you did before the layoff. Man, I felt like some 20+ handicapper out there. Somehow I kept the score somewhat under control, but my swing was terrible. I can't clear my hips and I'm not sure why. I can tell it's the problem, but something in my sequencing is not right. When I force myself to clear my hips, I can usually hit it straight, with some decent ballspeed and pop off the clubface, but the forcing part can create other surprises on the downswing or affect other dynamics of my swing in general, leading to poor contact.

I played/walked nine on an easy Florida county course and couldn't even break 40. I can live with the 41 I shot, but not the swing that got me there. I normally draw my irons, or at least hit them straight, but other than wedge shots, most irons leaked right. I can't remember my irons leaking, except maybe my 5 iron every now and then. Worse, however, was my driver and 3W. My God, who stole my swing from only a month or so ago? Weak little slices. Made me sick to look at. Had to hit a 5 iron to reach the green in regulation on the par 5, 18th hole, which was only playing about 500 yards. A weak fade of a drive, a sliced 3W and then, still 160 out, (under normal conditions would have pulled a 7i or 6i, but the way I was striking the ball today) I pulled a 5i and thinned one onto the green, thankfully finishing with a par. But it wasn't pretty. I gotta figure this out. Quick. Only a week left in Florida and I don't wanna spend money on a good course to play like this. :nope

And, FWIW, after nearly a month off, my friggin' elbow tendinitis is still bugging me. I'm icing as I write this. My right shoulder is about to get ice too. It sucks getting old. Man, if I play like this next time, I may have to think about moving up to the white tees. If not for decent pitching, chipping and putting, today would have been one of those rounds where I question whether I want to play anymore while here. But, I'll figure it out. Hopefully.

Wait. This IS the Winter Support Group thread, right?

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by legitimatebeef » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:40 am

Eh, I'm not worried. Heard this tale before.
Build a bridge and get over it.

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by Duke of Hazards » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:31 pm

So I'm kind of obsessed with this 'breaking 80' thing, which might be inhibiting my chances of actually doing it (the obsession thing). Anyway, I browsed another golf site (Sandtrap maybe?) and someone brought up the book 'Extraordinary Golf' (Fred Shoemaker) as one of the key things that pushed them over the edge. Anecdotally, seems to be a very well received and sometimes transformational book for those that have read it, although it appears to be relatively unknown. It basically describes a mental approach of decoupling the experience of playing and enjoying golf from the results (score, etc). I think.

Anyhow, I bought it and will give it a go.
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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by gpickin » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:53 pm

You inspired me to get a couple other books on audible ( since that one wasn't there )
Let's share notes after.
I got "Be a player" and "Golf isn't a game of perfect"

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by DougE » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:17 pm

Golf Is Not a Game of Perfect, by Bob Rotella, is good stuff. I have the audio version, read by Rotella himself, and listen to it whenever I feel I need a boost to my mental game. I also have Rotella's Your 15th Club and listen to it often. It too helps with the mind game of golf.

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by sjduffers » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:16 pm

Duke of Hazards wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:31 pm
So I'm kind of obsessed with this 'breaking 80' thing, which might be inhibiting my chances of actually doing it (the obsession thing). Anyway, I browsed another golf site (Sandtrap maybe?) and someone brought up the book 'Extraordinary Golf' (Fred Shoemaker) as one of the key things that pushed them over the edge. Anecdotally, seems to be a very well received and sometimes transformational book for those that have read it, although it appears to be relatively unknown. It basically describes a mental approach of decoupling the experience of playing and enjoying golf from the results (score, etc). I think.

Anyhow, I bought it and will give it a go.
By all means. However, when I was in this situation (trying to break 80 for the first time), I was a bit mental about it, for a while, even ending with a number of 80s on the nose, after getting a bogey on the last hole (a straightforward par 5 that I should normally get par on), sometimes with a 3-putt, whereas putting is my forte, dare I say... My mind was getting in the way, as you say.

So, I decided to change things a bit: I went to play an easy course, from some short tees (I think it was 5800y or some such), until I broke 80, which I did on my second try with a smooth 78. I was not "trying" anymore, I just let it happen, because I had the game for it to make it happen there without worrying about it, because it was a bit easier than what I normally play.

In a sense, it was decoupling playing from the results, just letting the result happen... and it did because it should! Fast forward four or five years and I now break 80 about half the time I play, give or take and I no longer think about it, until I add them up at the end. Sure, the goal is to do just that before I start, but I no longer obsess with it or give up if I have a double or worse. Grinding to make pars has a sneaky way to turn a bad round into a round in the 80s! :thrust
I'm gonna go low this time...

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by jasonfish11 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:54 am

Sj has it right go play an easy course. The first time I broke 80 I had a putt for 76 on the 18th hole, shot 77. Prior to that I hadn't shot in the 30s on any 9 but I had shot 80 four times (40/40 each time).

I didn't move up to shorter tees, but I went to a course that played very easy for me.
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by DougE » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:04 am

There is something to that. I used to play the white tees most of the time a couple/few years back. I was shooting in the high 70s and low 80s regularly. Then I decided I was hitting the ball well enough---the best of my golf life actually---to try the blue tees. Started out scoring low to mid 80s. WIthin a very short period, saw some 70s. I now play the blue tees virtually every round during posting season and am down to about a 6 handicap (5.9 officially). I was a 9 or 10 when I moved to the blues from the whites a few seasons back. The extra 500 yards distance from the blues helped me become more proficient with my 3W and hybrid I guess. Or maybe it's all mental. Who knows.

Funny, during the cold, wet, windy winter rounds, I moved to the whites and haven't really seen any major betterment in my scores from when I was playing the blue tees in the warmer, more favorable conditions. Of course, winter conditions in general can add new variables that make it harder, even though playing a shorter course from the whites. Furry/bumpy greens, no rollout on saturated fairways, and lack of carry distance with all clubs due to cold and wind, to name a few. So I'm not too worried about my game in winter. Maybe when I get back to the blues I'll see some low-mid 70s as payment for playing the tough conditions all winter.

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by gpickin » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:50 am

The longer tees never changed my scores much ( my wedge game sucks so not using a wedge helps ), but improved my handicap... so when I want to work on my handicap I play the tips.

One course near me, has Black, Blue White Gold and Red, i used to play the whites with a 4 iron off the tee... with the holes that short, you could play different clubs and practice a lot of clubs i rarely touch in a normal round of golf. That course is a links style with lots of punishment, so 4 iron off the tee was a good move anyways :)

If its me and my brother, we play the tips, everyone else wants the whites, so we'll play them. Sometimes we would play the tips while others played the whites, but it was a pain and broke up the group, so we don't do that anymore.
I like the challenge of the crazy tees that no one plays.

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by jasonfish11 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:55 am

gpickin wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:50 am
The longer tees never changed my scores much ( my wedge game sucks so not using a wedge helps ), but improved my handicap... so when I want to work on my handicap I play the tips.
Sorry, but don't try pushing that nonsense. I can guarantee you hit your standard 100 yard shot closer than your standard 150 yard shot.

It's possible that there isn't much difference score wise and therefore your handicap gets better because the course rating is harder from the tips, happens when you hit the ball a long fucking ways like you do but it is not because you are more accurate from 150 yards than 100 yards.
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by legitimatebeef » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:37 am

Duke of Hazards wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:31 pm
So I'm kind of obsessed with this 'breaking 80' thing, which might be inhibiting my chances of actually doing it (the obsession thing).
Oh god. No it's not. Get out of your freakin' navel and whack some balls. Or chip em at least. What I am saying is that I do not believe you need mental help. You just need better technique, like everyone who is trying to improve. Making the "smart" decision, or calming the self down and remembering about "one shot at a time" or whatever might save us losers a stroke here or there, every few rounds. Where we lose most strokes is shitty ballstriking. Followed probably by weak, unconfident putting.
Build a bridge and get over it.

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by Duke of Hazards » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:55 am

legitimatebeef wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:37 am
Duke of Hazards wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:31 pm
So I'm kind of obsessed with this 'breaking 80' thing, which might be inhibiting my chances of actually doing it (the obsession thing).
Oh god. No it's not. Get out of your freakin' navel and whack some balls. Or chip em at least. What I am saying is that I do not believe you need mental help. You just need better technique, like everyone who is trying to improve. Making the "smart" decision, or calming the self down and remembering about "one shot at a time" or whatever might save us losers a stroke here or there, every few rounds. Where we lose most strokes is shitty ballstriking. Followed probably by weak, unconfident putting.
That's easy for you to say since you've broken 80 multiple times. For the rest of us losers, it's like the major milestone in golf and it gets in your head.
My last round, I started off with a 3 penalty quadruple, but it was early in the round. I remember collecting myself on hole 2 and forcing myself to refocus, stand tall and relax. I played the next 12 holes at +5. Yeah, I wasn't going to break 80, but I distinctly remember looking at my phone app around then and thinking that if I did well, I could tie my lowest round, improve my hcp, whatever. I then borked the next 3 holes badly. In your post above, you poo poo the idea of improving mental game, but it looks like many people have dropped their handicaps by 3-4 strokes. I've been practicing my wedge game and short game and have improved that and am committed to spending more time both practicing and playing, but if I can gain even 2 strokes per round while sitting on the couch reading a book after dinner, then I'm gonna do it.

I also realize that a significant barrier to breaking 80 is frequency of play. Over my entire golfing life, I've averaged roughly 12-14 rounds per year. That's once a month. Ain't noone gonna break 80 playing once a month, no matter how much practice. I've committed to playing more and have set some goals there as well.
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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by gpickin » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:54 pm

jasonfish11 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:55 am
Sorry, but don't try pushing that nonsense. I can guarantee you hit your standard 100 yard shot closer than your standard 150 yard shot.
I'm not trying to be a big strong man about it, my wedge game is worse than most hackers out there.

My problem is from 30-85 yards.
My 50 goes 85-110, my 54 goes about 85-95, my 56 degree goes 50-60 if i hit it perfect, but its more like 200 yards when i thin it :P
I am terrible 65%, 75%, 85% shots. I always FAT them or THIN them, because I'm thinking too much about how hard to hit it, and not follow through etc.

For example, i hit my drive 300 ish the other day, and had 55 yards left.
Took me 4 more shots to get on the green, yes, 4 f**king wedges.
In this wet, I have to be careful not to dig into the ground and hit it fat... and when I am too careful, I thin it. I feel like a 120 hacker, when i played my first round.

Its a problem in my game, I know it, and most people aren't like me.
For 70 yard shots now, I am often taking my 145 club and doing a half shot bump and run if the course lets me, and that has helped.
For me, my PW through 8 iron are my better clubs. I still might miss the green, but my misses are puttable / chippable from next to the green, where my misses for my wedges are fat shots where the divots go further or I thin it and almost kill someone.

If I had to put money on a shot to hit the green, I'd take 120 over 60 every day of the week.

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by legitimatebeef » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:18 pm

Duke of Hazards wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:55 am
legitimatebeef wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:37 am
Duke of Hazards wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:31 pm
So I'm kind of obsessed with this 'breaking 80' thing, which might be inhibiting my chances of actually doing it (the obsession thing).
Oh god. No it's not. Get out of your freakin' navel and whack some balls. Or chip em at least. What I am saying is that I do not believe you need mental help. You just need better technique, like everyone who is trying to improve. Making the "smart" decision, or calming the self down and remembering about "one shot at a time" or whatever might save us losers a stroke here or there, every few rounds. Where we lose most strokes is shitty ballstriking. Followed probably by weak, unconfident putting.
That's easy for you to say since you've broken 80 multiple times. For the rest of us losers, it's like the major milestone in golf and it gets in your head.
My last round, I started off with a 3 penalty quadruple, but it was early in the round. I remember collecting myself on hole 2 and forcing myself to refocus, stand tall and relax. I played the next 12 holes at +5. Yeah, I wasn't going to break 80, but I distinctly remember looking at my phone app around then and thinking that if I did well, I could tie my lowest round, improve my hcp, whatever. I then borked the next 3 holes badly. In your post above, you poo poo the idea of improving mental game, but it looks like many people have dropped their handicaps by 3-4 strokes. I've been practicing my wedge game and short game and have improved that and am committed to spending more time both practicing and playing, but if I can gain even 2 strokes per round while sitting on the couch reading a book after dinner, then I'm gonna do it.

I also realize that a significant barrier to breaking 80 is frequency of play. Over my entire golfing life, I've averaged roughly 12-14 rounds per year. That's once a month. Ain't noone gonna break 80 playing once a month, no matter how much practice. I've committed to playing more and have set some goals there as well.
Ha ha, I too once tried to scheme my way under 80. So if anything my words carry extra weight. :lolz I understand where you are coming from, and the insecurity that comes from not playing that often. From 2015-2018 I sat out almost completely. When I did play the strokes would pile up. Still happening to me actually. I do not feel like a regular player. So I can have good spells out there, but also find disaster easily. Anyways you are right, I do poopoo the mental game. I think it is overrated.

Chipping is probably the biggest factor in breaking 80. In my experience whenever I hit a few close chips, that confidence spills over into the rest of the game. Stakes don't seem so high especially on approach shots. Eh, just let me scrape this thing to anywhere near the green and I'll be fine, etc.
Build a bridge and get over it.

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by jasonfish11 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:26 pm

gpickin wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:54 pm

If I had to put money on a shot to hit the green, I'd take 120 over 60 every day of the week.
Do you have anything that keeps detailed stats? Like remaining distance to pin after each shot?

If so I'd wager some money that this isn't true. It may feel that way, but I'd find it very hard to believe your average leave from 110-130 yards is closer than your average leave from 50-70.

Here $70 and you can get the info to prove that you are right/wrong about your game.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Game-Golf- ... :rk:9:pf:0
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by gpickin » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:01 pm

I have the Game Golf stuff... i finally put it on the charger, will start using it again.
As Beef said, the main reason we don't score better is shitty ball striking.
If i make solid contact, its a different story... but right now, its hard enough getting the golf ball on the club, let alone the right part of the club.

The potential to blow up a hole is definitely in the shorter distances... but its something I am trying to work on at the range ( its so much easier on the range - its hard to go fat under a ball on a mat )... so hoping it doesn't plague me for much longer.

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by jasonfish11 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:01 pm

what is your gamegolf ID?
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by Duke of Hazards » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:02 pm

jasonfish11 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:26 pm
gpickin wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:54 pm

If I had to put money on a shot to hit the green, I'd take 120 over 60 every day of the week.
Do you have anything that keeps detailed stats? Like remaining distance to pin after each shot?

If so I'd wager some money that this isn't true. It may feel that way, but I'd find it very hard to believe your average leave from 110-130 yards is closer than your average leave from 50-70.

Here $70 and you can get the info to prove that you are right/wrong about your game.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Game-Golf- ... :rk:9:pf:0
In Gavin's defense, I was the same way. I had a much better chance of executing a full swing shot with a short iron or wedge than a partial wedge. I was sickened with not being able to hit the green from 50-80 yards out in the fairway. Fatting, thinning. My issue was that the bulk of my practice was off mats at the range, which is fine for the longer clubs, even down to short irons (still hit them a little thin), but does nothing to simulate the feel of an actual wedge or partial wedge, and ball contact first strikes. Not sure if data bears this out, but it seems like California's arid climate is not conducive to many mid tier or lower courses having grass ranges. Seems like in other states, grass ranges are far more common.

Anyway, I have a grass range near where I live and I've been spending time practicing nothing but 50-100 yard shots. The good thing is that you get much more bang for your buck timewise, practicing short game/wedges. I really need to work on chipping now, from different lies.
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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by gpickin » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:08 pm

From the limited data on game golf... I had issues recording the last couple of putts etc... but its pretty obvious where my weakness is.
strokes.JPG
strokes.JPG (31.46 KiB) Viewed 116 times

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by jasonfish11 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:13 pm

That is just for 1 round, which is pretty meaningless when looking at bigger picture of where you are better.

Also short game is everything inside 100 yards. If you click on "insights" then "view insights" then "Approach the Green" you can see data on a more granular level.

Example I hit 70% of shots from 50-75 yards within 15 yards of the flag, 15% miss short of that 15 yard radius, 9% miss long, and 3% miss right.

From 100-125 yards I hit 67% of shots w/in 15 yards of the pin, 14% are short, 6% long, 7% right, and 3% left. But if you look at the dispersion on the overlays you see a much bigger dispersion on the 100-125 yard graph.

From 125-150 yards I hit 54% of shots w/in 15 yards of the pin, 18% short of that, 5% long 9% right, and 12% left...


The average green has a 15 yard radius from the center, which is why game golf uses the 15 yard radius as it's gauge for how accurate you are.
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by jasonfish11 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:35 pm

Oh man GG is lame, it doesn't let you look up detailed stats on other people. I was looking for a way to see your stats Duke, and it just gives me some high level ones.
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by Duke of Hazards » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:24 pm

I stopped shot tracking quite a while ago (2017?) When I was, it looked like...

50-75y: 64%
75-100y: 47%
100-125y: 56%
125-150: 19%
150-175: 35%


The 75-100 was what was killing me. The 100-125 was mostly all with one club, and I'm comfortable with that club and range.
Coincidentally, the smart tips feature advised me to work on was 75-100 on the 'Approach' category.

125-150 looks off, I don't feel like there was that big a drop off from 125, but maybe just due to limited set of data I had in GG?

I wish I had more current data. I'd venture to guess that I'm far more proficient inside 100 yards after the recent practice.

I like the strokes gained data and hope that they refine shot tracking to make it less intrusive. I felt I was at a point where I had gained enough information to make actionable changes in my game and so I stopped tracking. I felt I was a bit distracted during the round sometimes.

I do need to work a lot on short game, chipping. I should be chipping closer to the hole on missed greens.
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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by jasonfish11 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:58 pm

Duke of Hazards wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:24 pm

I like the strokes gained data and hope that they refine shot tracking to make it less intrusive. I felt I was at a point where I had gained enough information to make actionable changes in my game and so I stopped tracking. I felt I was a bit distracted during the round sometimes.
I've used it long enough it's now just part of my preshot routine. I dont know which version you have. I have the classic where you just tag the club to the recorder thing on your belt. So now if I leave it at home, or forget to charge it I'm still tagging the butt of my club to my left hip even if it isn't there.

Basically when I step behind the ball to get a sense of the line that is when I tag my club. For putts I do that right before setting the club down behind the ball. I guess this leads to a 2 yard variance for my approach shots, if I'm standing 6' behind the ball when I tag it then standing right on the ball when I tag my putt, I guess I'll have to wipe all my data and figure out a new preshot routine.
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: 2018-2019 Winter Support Group

Post by legitimatebeef » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:53 pm

Couple of few inches of snow today. Followed by several days of noice temps. It's almost March, i.e. we have almost made it, friends. Winter lacked any real punch here in the tri-state. Whenever we got snow, it got melted down within a few days either by temps or rain. Many days of above average temp. Golf galore in December January February. Wintergolf your f'ing face off, as our old pal jfurr might say.

The earth is all white right now but I still expect to be out there by next week. Not with much excitement or anything, just same old shit. High scores on soft, wet, squidgy, squishy, mucky, sad old golf course. Guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm in the pits of winter. Depressed by it all now. December is my probably favorite part of winter despite the short days. I like to put up the xmas lites, hunker down against the encroaching darkness and ride it out. Feeling nostalgic for those days right now. Late winter is such a slog. Getting tired of bundling up, gloving up wearing tights etc. At the start of the season I enjoy all that, now what a hassle.

If this is the new normal I should be grateful. Looking at the whole year, the weather here is pretty noice. You get the four seasons but not much of the soul crushing, debilitating extreme weather. More people should move here. :smug
Build a bridge and get over it.

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