My swing issue

Post Reply
User avatar
Duke of Hazards
Posts: 1443
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:29 am
Location: Orange, CA

My swing issue

Post by Duke of Hazards » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:13 pm

So I've sucked with my iron/wedge play last several rounds, however on 18th hole of an otherwise forgettable round, I thought back to the near 70's round from last month. At that time, I'd identified a setup issue (open shoulders at address) and made a conscious effort the whole round to correct it by closing the shoulders at address. I hit my irons/wedges well that round and made 5 birdies. Of course, I quickly abandoned this setup process enroute to several frustrating rounds in the 90's.

Anyhow, on 18 in my last round, I did the tweak (mostly concentrating on keeping shoulders closed to target) and hit the best drive of the day followed by the purest 5 iron I've hit in a long time just pin high left. Got up and down for birdie.

In trying to search for the root cause, I found this dude's video which kind of illustrates my errant setup tendency (starts at 1:40 in the video), which is basically too straight of a trail arm along with a 'high' trail shoulder (protraction / elevation and internal rotation of the shoulder joint). I'm mostly just posting this for posterity, but curious if anyone else has had this issue.

Bluto did it

User avatar
DougE
Posts: 2449
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:40 pm
Location: Maryland
dogs: 1
Contact:

Re: My swing issue

Post by DougE » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:39 pm

Agree with the video. I find when I align my shoulders, hips and feet, all slightly closed to the target line, I hit my best drives. As far as other clubs go, I typically set up that way anyway, so don't have to think about it. But with driver, trying to get some tilt and making sure my head behind the ball, I often catch myself with my right arm over my left at set up. And that usually leads to weak-assed fades. Funny though, even though I know that is a problem, it sometimes takes me 6 or 7 more drives before I realize it's THAT and not some other dumb move I'm making. I grasp at straws until I find the culprit. I need to start checking this earlier in my process of (swing flaws) elimination.

The biggest flaw for me always seems to be getting a little lax on covering the ball. So I always check that one first.

User avatar
CeeBee
Posts: 867
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:10 pm
Location: De
dogs: 0

Re: My swing issue

Post by CeeBee » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:54 am

I have this issue from time to time. Tough to fix. If all the things that go wrong with this game were easy to fix we would all be pretty damn good.
Tee it up!

User avatar
Duke of Hazards
Posts: 1443
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:29 am
Location: Orange, CA

Re: My swing issue

Post by Duke of Hazards » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:38 pm

So I had a bit of a swing breakthrough last week. I didn't realize how shitty I'd been swinging the club before, was totally rolling the arms away and sucking it inside on the takeaway, typical amateur garbage swinging. Was getting away with that with the driver, but not much else.

Now, I've got the beginnings of a proper one piece takeaway, keeping the clubface square to the target line as I turn away from the ball. It feels far more compact, but I now have confidence in knowing where the ball is going to go. Chipping and pitching are much better. Starting to compress it better. Also, the beginnings of a 'natural' wrist hinge at the top.

it's brand new, and I still have the old tendencies to pull too far back with the arms, but I think I'm on the right track. I wish I'd known how bad I was sooner, but fuck it, 2020's a new year and I'm ready to do this.
Bluto did it

User avatar
legitimatebeef
Posts: 7162
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:34 pm
Location: island off the coast of america
dogs: 1
Contact:

Re: My swing issue

Post by legitimatebeef » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:30 am

Hell yeah motherfucker, sounds like you are figuring out yourself.

Fight the real enemy: suckage.
Build a bridge and get over it.

User avatar
legitimatebeef
Posts: 7162
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:34 pm
Location: island off the coast of america
dogs: 1
Contact:

Re: My swing issue

Post by legitimatebeef » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:32 am

This thread title reminds me of the mid 2000s when every other website tried to glom on to the success of Myspace.com. One could do a lot worse than Myswingissue.com IMO. :up
Build a bridge and get over it.

User avatar
Duke of Hazards
Posts: 1443
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:29 am
Location: Orange, CA

Re: My swing issue

Post by Duke of Hazards » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:37 pm

Went to the range yesterday morning before work. I'm fortunate to have a range near me with grass. I truly believe that hitting tens of thousands of balls off mats over the years has handicapped me with an iron in my hand.

Anyhow, I had a mini breakthrough involving maintaining a firm left side at address and through the swing, specifically maintaining some tension in my lead side (left) obliques. Started hitting some nice iron shots, compressing the ball and taking a proper divot. Helped all the way down through my partial wedges, where I was able to turn through the ball and not flip my stupid hands at it.

We'll see how this holds up over the weekend.
Bluto did it

User avatar
DougE
Posts: 2449
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:40 pm
Location: Maryland
dogs: 1
Contact:

Re: My swing issue

Post by DougE » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:38 pm

@Duke of Hazards You're onto something. Great. I call it covering the ball. Its gives me a good strong left side to work my core through the ball to a full finish. It also adds distance. When I discovered it back in the day, it changed my game. It truly was a breakthrough to much better ballstriking throughout the bag. And, more distance. Do it correctly and the ball will jump off the clubface. Say goodbye to weak fades and slices. Though you still can fade it if you want, there will be a lot more zip on the ball. If you want to draw it, just change your path. (Easier said than done.)

User avatar
Duke of Hazards
Posts: 1443
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:29 am
Location: Orange, CA

Re: My swing issue

Post by Duke of Hazards » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:32 pm

Thanks Doug. I'm hopeful. It was a markedly different feeling. Just want to hit good iron shots.
Bluto did it

User avatar
Duke of Hazards
Posts: 1443
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:29 am
Location: Orange, CA

Re: My swing issue

Post by Duke of Hazards » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:31 pm

Played yesterday. Good news is I hit some of the best iron shots in recent memory including the best 4i I've ever hit. Long irons and hybrid were particularly good.

Unfortunately the driver sucked, usually my only strength and also had my worst putting day in at least 6 years.

Golf is a bit like whack-a-mole.
Bluto did it

User avatar
DougE
Posts: 2449
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:40 pm
Location: Maryland
dogs: 1
Contact:

Re: My swing issue

Post by DougE » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:10 pm

Duke of Hazards wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:31 pm

Golf is a bit like whack-a-mole.
Been sayin' that forever!

User avatar
jasonfish11
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:27 pm
Location: Virginia Beach
dogs: 2

Re: My swing issue

Post by jasonfish11 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:20 am

Duke of Hazards wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:31 pm
Played yesterday. Good news is I hit some of the best iron shots in recent memory including the best 4i I've ever hit. Long irons and hybrid were particularly good.

Unfortunately the driver sucked, usually my only strength and also had my worst putting day in at least 6 years.

Golf is a bit like whack-a-mole.
I believe that there is something so different about driver and iron swings that makes it nearly impossible for both to be clicking at the same time. I honestly think it's something as simple as hitting down v up on the ball, but when combined with speed and all the other movements it becomes a big issue.

I can only remember one time where I was driving the ball well and hitting irons well. It was in a tournament in TN. I shot 80, with 40 putts :facepalm and won my flight by 4 strokes.
Keep it short stupid.

User avatar
GBOGEY
Posts: 926
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:22 pm

Re: My swing issue

Post by GBOGEY » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:27 am

I remember reading where one top instructor said the primary issue was ball position. If you are hitting your irons really well, or so he said, and not hitting your FW or Hybrid well, it was likely that the iron ball position was sneaking into your non-iron ball position. Sure this could influence the driver as well.

User avatar
DougE
Posts: 2449
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:40 pm
Location: Maryland
dogs: 1
Contact:

Re: My swing issue

Post by DougE » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:07 am

@jasonfish11 I have to respectfully disagree with you, only because I have been hitting both irons and driver consistently well more often than not for the past two or three years, which I believe has been the result of gaining a better understanding of the swing over that period. Of course, I have had many days where one is good and the other bad, or even days when both are atrocious. But, when I have my best iron swing and ballstriking days, I typically have a decent day (or better) with the driver too, because both are pretty much the same swing.

Yes, it is a different set-up for irons vs. driver, but if you have a consistent swing, I don't think the two motions need to be all that different. Only your swing-bottom needs to be different and that is greatly affected by set-up. Certainly there are other nuances between the two, but I don't believe they are all that different. It's only my opinion, but it's based on my hundreds of days out there on the course each year hitting thousands and thousands of shots. 5 years ago, however, I likely would have agreed with you. Yet, the better my swing got by playing so much (and hanging out and practicing with club pros and much higher-level players than myself) the more I've realized you can have both things working well on a consistent basis when you use the same basic swing for both. They may look different and even feel a little different, but if the swing is sound fundamentally, there is not a big difference required between driver and irons. On the other hand, I do notice some golfers DO have different swings for both irons and driver, but frankly, those guys never seem to be better golfers. They are working too hard. If the basis of the swing is sound, two different swings are not necessary.

All that said, I do agree the biorhythms of all the various parts of your game (not specifically iron and driver swings) can often get out of sync. My golf planets hardly ever ALL align regularly. Yet, I believe if you have the ability to make consistent contact with a repeatable swing most days, you have the ability to regularly hit your driver and irons well on the same days quite often.

Jason, thanks for posting your opinion on this. This is the kind of stuff I wish we had more of to discuss on this site. Of course, it would be even better if we had more members here to contribute their 2 cents. And by members, I don't only mean more NEW ones. Just some of those we already have signed up would be great. So to those existing members, I say, please, chime in with your thoughts. ....and sign up a friend! ;)

User avatar
jasonfish11
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:27 pm
Location: Virginia Beach
dogs: 2

Re: My swing issue

Post by jasonfish11 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:20 am

@DougE
How dare you disagree with me.

But, you are probably right, you have a lot more experience than me. My experience is based on limited play/practice, so it's easier for inefficiencies to creep in causing things like ball position, and mental blocks to create swing differences that cause problems.

Just in my experience I can't get everything clicking at the same time.
Keep it short stupid.

User avatar
Duke of Hazards
Posts: 1443
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:29 am
Location: Orange, CA

Re: My swing issue

Post by Duke of Hazards » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:17 pm

I'd love to believe that the swings are the same. I think my issue is that with my newer swing, I don't go back as far and I was probably forcing too long of a backswing with the driver, getting out of sync and then slinging the clubhead thru with my hands. It felt terrible all day.

Going to try and work it out with some practice this week. Also some putter work, stop hunching so much and let the putter swing from the shoulders more.
Bluto did it

User avatar
bkuehn1952
Posts: 2838
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:08 pm
Location: The Mitten-Shaped Corona Hotspot
dogs: 0
Contact:

Re: My swing issue

Post by bkuehn1952 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:05 pm

It seems to me that swinging slightly upward at a teed ball would create some differences versus an iron swing where one is attempting to trap the ball into the ground with a descending strike. Yes, a very high percentage of the two swings are the same (e.g. rotating the upper body, maintaining the head relatively steady, etc...). Still, the swings do differ and if one is hitting the driver with a slightly descending swing, the results may not be too good.

Additionally, often with driver in hand, one is just letting it fly rather than using a more controlled swing to hit an exact distance, like one often does with irons.
Let's Play 36
GHIN Handicap: 7.8 … 9.2 … Let’s just say I am around a 14!

User avatar
Duke of Hazards
Posts: 1443
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:29 am
Location: Orange, CA

Re: My swing issue

Post by Duke of Hazards » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:08 am

Back to the range this morning and made another massive discovery (for me). Wrists. I've been way too wristy at takeaway, not taking the club back with a 'firm' flat lead wrist. Kind of just stumbled upon this late in the session but it made a huge difference, not just in feeling the clubface in space, but more importantly, maintaining control of the golf club in the lead hand/arm. I've fought my right hand 'snatching' the club early in the backswing for as long as I can remember.

With the firm lead wrist (both wrists somewhat), the trail arm remained softer and folded earlier in the backswing, staying in front of my chest.
Bluto did it

User avatar
DougE
Posts: 2449
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:40 pm
Location: Maryland
dogs: 1
Contact:

Re: My swing issue

Post by DougE » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:39 am

bkuehn1952 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:05 pm
It seems to me that swinging slightly upward at a teed ball would create some differences versus an iron swing where one is attempting to trap the ball into the ground with a descending strike. Yes, a very high percentage of the two swings are the same (e.g. rotating the upper body, maintaining the head relatively steady, etc...). Still, the swings do differ and if one is hitting the driver with a slightly descending swing, the results may not be too good.

Additionally, often with driver in hand, one is just letting it fly rather than using a more controlled swing to hit an exact distance, like one often does with irons.
As you should know Brian, I have deep respect for you and your golfing abilities, yet, I don't see it quite the same way as you do. Here's my reasoning.

Before I start, I do agree that the swing paths are somewhat different, just not that the swing mechanics are all that different. One of your key phrases, "...swinging at a teed ball...," is wherein lies the problem. Though I'm sure you know the difference between swinging AT and swinging THROUGH the ball, and that you aren't necessarily trying to be that literal when you say AT, I believe most golfers in general subconsciously think they swing AT the ball and the term "at" is an accepted one throughout the sport. But, in fact, a good swing does not hit AT the ball. The ball just gets in the way. If you tee up a ball 1/2 inch off the turf on a par 3 to make a 138 yard 9i shot, do you change your swing mechanics to swing your 9i? Not really in my opinion. At least I don't. I may move the ball a touch forward, but I make the same swing and still try to make a downward strike on the ball to trap it, leaving a thin divot forward of the ball. However, if I move that teed ball 4 inches up in my stance, it'd be difficult to strike down on it if I set up with my head behind the ball like I would with a driver. Yet, I could still make ball-first contact with my same 9i swing, but it would likely be after my swing has already bottomed out, meaning that I would go through the ball on an upswing (likely skulling it).

IN MY OPINION, making the same motion THROUGH the ball on a full swing shot, no matter which club you have in your hands, is the most likely way to have ballstriking consistency. Fundamentals and swing mechanics are nearly the same. I am a trapper of the ball (not a picker by any means) with my irons, yet I hit up on the ball with my driver, and I no longer need two different swings to do both. I used to try to have two, but I realized it was a lot of extra effort for far worse results. When I began to understand how similar those two things needed to be, that's when I began to play some good golf (and btw, hit the ball further). But, maybe that's just me.

I now use the same swing thoughts before I make my take-away, whether I'm standing on the tee with driver or over a short-iron approach off a tightly mown fairway. The length of the club dictates my path. My basic swing is the same. I can make the ball go high or low off the tee by little nuances in my swing and set-up, or make the ball check immediately on the green with a lower trajectory off the wedge, taking a divot ahead of the ball. The mechanics for both swings are the same and I do not HIT AT the ball on either. When I do HIT AT the ball, well, that's when I have bad ballstriking days.

Frankly, I'm guessing we actually agree on the basic principals, but our semantics may not.

As an aside, I was having driver issues a few years back. I told the teaching pro of my woes. He gave me a 2-hour lesson. Yet, he never had me take the driver out of the bag for the entire lesson. An 8-iron got me hitting much better drives. I have been a better ballstriker across the board ever since.

User avatar
Duke of Hazards
Posts: 1443
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:29 am
Location: Orange, CA

Re: My swing issue

Post by Duke of Hazards » Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:37 pm

Best ball striking day in a long time. Firm left side and firm lead wrist. Hit 10 greens, but had a few blow up holes and didn't putt great.

The swing held up with all clubs. Got a little bit flippy on a few shorter wedge shots and a few tee shots, but overall was great progress. Contact feeling much better with the irons and can control direction much better.
Bluto did it

User avatar
legitimatebeef
Posts: 7162
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:34 pm
Location: island off the coast of america
dogs: 1
Contact:

Re: My swing issue

Post by legitimatebeef » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:19 am

Duke of Hazards wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:37 pm
10 greens
Build a bridge and get over it.

User avatar
Duke of Hazards
Posts: 1443
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:29 am
Location: Orange, CA

Re: My swing issue

Post by Duke of Hazards » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:32 pm

So I was flipping channels recently and happened on that Golf Channel show with the older, white haired British guy and the former Instagram hottie (can't remember which one) where they answer write-in questions on the golf swing. As a 'fix' for some schlub's question about hitting solid iron shots, the British dude mentioned feeling weight/pressure go down and into the instep of the lead foot on the backswing.

Anyhow, I remembered this while at the range over the weekend and tried it and started hitting some really good shots. I've often struggled with swaying off the ball and getting back to the lead foot. This helped keep connection with the ground with both knees and my weight centered. Maintaining the feel and weight on the inside of my lead foot helped me start the transition with pushing into the lead foot and then straightening the lead leg (i.e. 'posting'). I ended up producing some of the fastest clubhead speed I've generated in a while and actually felt like I was using the lower body to generate power, with soft arms/upper body. Used this yesterday during a 4-man scramble (work event) and was hitting it longer than I have in quite some time.

I have to work on a few things, namely making sure I setup closer to the ball w/ Irons so as not to early extend and also keeping myself from peeking, but I like the new swing thought.
Bluto did it

User avatar
JPJ
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:02 pm
Location: Sahrff Lahndun
dogs: 0
Contact:

Re: My swing issue

Post by JPJ » Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:38 pm

Duke of Hazards wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:32 pm
So I was flipping channels recently and happened on that Golf Channel show with the older, white haired British guy...
Martin Hall?
Golf is too hard. Stupid golf.

User avatar
JPJ
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:02 pm
Location: Sahrff Lahndun
dogs: 0
Contact:

Re: My swing issue

Post by JPJ » Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:42 pm

My swing issue is just that the weather this weekend is wonderful so far, with more warm sunny weather promised for tomorrow...but we're all housebound so I can't actually test out the swing for real. Best I can do is practice swings with no ball (they're excellent swings, of course).

At least we're still breathing.
Golf is too hard. Stupid golf.

User avatar
Duke of Hazards
Posts: 1443
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:29 am
Location: Orange, CA

Re: My swing issue

Post by Duke of Hazards » Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:55 pm

JPJ wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:38 pm
Duke of Hazards wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:32 pm
So I was flipping channels recently and happened on that Golf Channel show with the older, white haired British guy...
Martin Hall?
Yes, that's him.
Bluto did it

Post Reply