Just Keep Swimming

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sjduffers
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby sjduffers » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:26 pm

It may be less so on the 7i due to the different angle, but look at this for a good explanation of the phenomenon:
https://www.tutelman.com/golf/measure/f ... ortion.php
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jasonfish11
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby jasonfish11 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:01 am

I think you are right after reading that. I'd just never seen it so early in a swing.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby jasonfish11 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:16 am

Ok thinks are getting much closer to what I want and my ball striking is showing it. Still need to shorten it up (swing length crept up on me).

I apologize for the noise (cart barn person left a cart in reverse) and I dont know how to edit it in youtube.

7i DTL


Dr DTL


7i FO


Dr FO
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby jasonfish11 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:22 am

Also I have a strange "tick" where I open my mouth in the backswing. It looks strange on video but I'm not about to force myself to concentrate on it, in order to change it. I've noticed it for a couple weeks now.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby jasonfish11 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:20 am

So I'm going to be making some pretty big changes. I have a feeling they might take a while.

I went to the range today and just worked on hitting 8i with the below thoughts.

1. A more vertical wrist set and arm swing.
2. Delaying my hips from firing (keeping ass at target just a little longer).
3. Keeping my head stationary through the entire swing.

An entire bucket of balls (60 balls) with out taking a full swing. I hit 2 or 3 good shots. Going to be a long road, I'm hoping I can feel comfortable enough to go play a round in about a month when it starts getting warmer.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby DougE » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:39 am

jasonfish11 wrote:So I'm going to be making some pretty big changes. I have a feeling they might take a while.


3. Keeping my head stationary through the entire swing.



Though I have many things on my checklist to be sure I do when I swing, this particular thought is what has made be a MUCH MORE CONSISTENT ballstriker with my irons. If I hit one fat or thin, which doesn't happen these days as often as it used to, I can usually trace the problem back to moving my head one way or another, which then affects so many other elements of the swing, like balance, timing and weight transfer. It will also help to keep you from going past parallel in your back swing, ultimately keeping your overall swing much more in control. To me, this one is the most important on your list.

:school Just a simple little drill that can help. Learned it from Tom Watson. It's for iron swings. Hopefully this will make sense without pictures.

Take a wire hanger, uncoil it at the neck and straighten it out. Now bend one end into a 2-3 inch diameter circle/loop. Stick the other end 4 or 5 inches into the ground, about 2 feet outside the ball, directly opposite of your chest at set up. Pull the top part (the part with the loop) over towards you and bend the loop part so it's horizontal/parallel to the ground, so that you see the ball through the circle when you are at address. At this point the only part of the wire that is anywhere inside your swing is the loop part. You can't hit the wire, it is stuck in the ground too far outside your swing and you can't hit the loop part because it is situated a couple feet above the ground, between your eyes and the ball. Your club will move back and come through underneath it. Now make your normal swing, but don't allow your vision/head to move enough off the ball that it allows the image of the ball to move visually outside the border of the circle/loop, until after you have made contact. If your head is moving too much, you will not be able to keep the image of the ball inside the confines of the loop, visually.

If you practice that drill, you will learn to keep your head basically still, where it's supposed to be throughout the back swing and down swing. And I predict, your contact will be more precise over time. Then, any time you add a new element or swing change, check that you are still keeping the ball within that circle. It changed my game a few years back.

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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby jasonfish11 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:23 am

That is a really good tip. Thank you.

My question is I guess you have to reposition the hanger before every shot? Or do you move the hanger, put the ball under it, then adjust your stance so that you see the ball through the loop (ie not working on "aim" down range)?
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby legitimatebeef » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:23 am

DougE wrote:
jasonfish11 wrote:So I'm going to be making some pretty big changes. I have a feeling they might take a while.


3. Keeping my head stationary through the entire swing.



Though I have many things on my checklist to be sure I do when I swing, this particular thought is what has made be a MUCH MORE CONSISTENT ballstriker with my irons. If I hit one fat or thin, which doesn't happen these days as often as it used to, I can usually trace the problem back to moving my head one way or another, which then affects so many other elements of the swing, like balance, timing and weight transfer. It will also help to keep you from going past parallel in your back swing, ultimately keeping your overall swing much more in control. To me, this one is the most important on your list.

:school Just a simple little drill that can help. Learned it from Tom Watson. It's for iron swings. Hopefully this will make sense without pictures.

Take a wire hanger, uncoil it at the neck and straighten it out. Now bend one end into a 2-3 inch diameter circle/loop. Stick the other end 4 or 5 inches into the ground, about 2 feet outside the ball, directly opposite of your chest at set up. Pull the top part (the part with the loop) over towards you and bend the loop part so it's horizontal/parallel to the ground, so that you see the ball through the circle when you are at address. At this point the only part of the wire that is anywhere inside your swing is the loop part. You can't hit the wire, it is stuck in the ground too far outside your swing and you can't hit the loop part because it is situated a couple feet above the ground, between your eyes and the ball. Your club will move back and come through underneath it. Now make your normal swing, but don't allow your vision/head to move enough off the ball that it allows the image of the ball to move visually outside the border of the circle/loop, until after you have made contact. If your head is moving too much, you will not be able to keep the image of the ball inside the confines of the loop, visually.

If you practice that drill, you will learn to keep your head basically still, where it's supposed to be throughout the back swing and down swing. And I predict, your contact will be more precise over time. Then, any time you add a new element or swing change, check that you are still keeping the ball within that circle. It changed my game a few years back.


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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby jasonfish11 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:27 am

To be fair, I'm likely to attempt to fix the head movement last.

#1 and #2 are connected, fixing one with out the other will cause me to be super stuck and either hit massive block slices, or flip my arms over and snap hook it.

#3, all though very important, to me will be the hardest change. I've had head movement my entire life. If you look at the videos, I've done a good job over the last 2-3 months eliminating the movement before transition. But I struggle keeping still during the downswing. In the words of snoop dogg I drop it like its hot.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby DougE » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:49 am

Well, when you finally get around to working on it, trust me, this is a great drill.

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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby jasonfish11 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:25 pm

DougE wrote:Well, when you finally get around to working on it, trust me, this is a great drill.


I may give it a try the next time I get to the range (supposed to rain the next 2 days).

I really like the idea, I was thinking of making a home made bender stick to help stop head movement. But I like this idea better.

My golf bag has so many home made or cheap "training" aids in it looks like I robbed a CVS.

2 "alignment rods" (bought from Home Depot for $4).
Fold up tripod
3' long 2x1 which I use to roll putts down (make sure I'm starting it on line).
Athlete's foot spray ("impact tape")
And now a bent coat hanger
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby jasonfish11 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:22 am

Oh man this will be a tough change.

Today I was trying to overly exaggerate the move knowing what I feel isn't what actually happens.

So my thought was to swing like Ryan Moore (super early wrist set, arms go almost vertical to the top). So I took some video trying to emulate Ryan Moore, my results were not even close. Nearly no early wrist set, still way too shallow shoulder turn. Leaving me still across the line at the top. My changes did result in me becoming more vertical in transition and swinging OTT, which is not the desired result. :fk

Guess I'll have to take the approach of a very deliberate back swing, then just try to hit 100 yard 8i's for the next couple weeks. Attempting to just "feel" the change at full speed obviously is not possible.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby legitimatebeef » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:43 am

For what reason do you want the more vertical wrist set?
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby jasonfish11 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:43 am

legitimatebeef wrote:For what reason do you want the more vertical wrist set?


I'm trying to build a more consistent swing (remove the timing aspect of my swing). Right now my ball striking one day makes me look like a scratch golfer, the next day it makes me look like an 18 handicap.

My current misses are pretty drastic due to this. If I'm a little late I wind up with a block slice and too early I hit a snap hook. The distance between these 2 shots is well over 100 yards.

That being said recently I've been very well synced up when I wind up playing golf. But I'm also being selective on when I play a round. I have only been playing a round after a week where I'm hitting the ball well on the range. So my good scoring doesn't really indicate what I'm seeing on the range. Weeks where I'm shitting all over myself on the range I tend to not play golf, because I don't want to suffer for 5 hours.

I like playing in tournaments, and I can't cherry pick the weeks I play when I'm in tournaments. So I'm hoping to spend the next year building more consistency. Next year I'll play in the golf week am tour thing again.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby legitimatebeef » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:10 pm

jasonfish11 wrote:
legitimatebeef wrote:For what reason do you want the more vertical wrist set?


I'm trying to build a more consistent swing (remove the timing aspect of my swing).


I think I could've figured that part out. :facepalm I meant more specifically, mechanically what's the deal? Is it at all related to sucking the club too far inside on the backswing? Just trying to broaden my horizons here.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby jasonfish11 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:19 pm

So bringing it back flat, like I do, forces me to do 1 of 2 things. I have to do one of these things because my right elbow gets stuck behind my rib cage instead of in front of my chest.

1) Come way OTT (which I dont do).
2) Clear my hips super early to provide room for my arms to swing through. This causes me to be really stuck and have my arms way behind my body (not synced up). If timed correctly this can still result in quality shots. But if my hips are too early the club face is wide open at impact, if they are too late my arm is stuck and my arms "flip" around my body causing a snap hook.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby sjduffers » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:40 pm

Jason, did you do the mirror drill I was talking about in the "Driver Testing" thread?

You don't have to do it at full speed initially (actually you don't want to at least until you can see what it's all about), or even have a downswing. Just do a slow-motion takeaway and look down the line to your right (since you are right-handed) that the club head is outside your hands when the club is parallel to the ground. It will feel a lot more upright than what you are doing now, based on the videos earlier in this thread. Move the arms and shoulders triangle and turn the upper body at the same time, keeping the butt of the club right in front of you: no arm rotation at all.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby jasonfish11 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:07 am

I haven't yet as I don't have a mirror.

1 days worth of progress. Can you guess which day was 65 degrees and which was 45 degrees w/ 25 mph winds?

The blue line is where I feel like the shaft is lol I would have sworn it was past vertical.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby sjduffers » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:05 pm

If you can improve slightly the position of the camera so it's truly down the line (the latest two are so much better compared to the ones from 1/30 above), you can check that position as well, using the same technology you used above: freeze frame at the key moment and drawing circles on your hands and on the club head. :thumbs

Your position above is pretty good, but the club extending out of your left arm should really come out of your right shoulder, and the line point to the ball, not 3-4 feet past it. In other words, you are still a bit too shallow at the top. But you already knew that, right?
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby jasonfish11 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:08 pm

Agree I've looked at that already. The club stayed outside today.

Also lol at that being the "top"
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby sjduffers » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:52 pm

Ah! Yes, indeed, in the first image from today, the club is well outside and that should give you a good top position. You are much more flexible than I am (or your wrist cocking much more pronounced), as the club is just a tad past parallel at the top, and slightly across the line it looks like. The left wrist is slightly cupped meaning an open face (toe slightly down), so you are relying on an active closing of the face during the downswing. I would try to get the wrist flat, in a straight line extension from the left arm, and with the club face parallel with that line with a bit shorter backswing (for an iron): then, all you have to do is turn while extending the right arm (that extension is the part I am struggling with)! :thumbs :school

In the last picture (from a different day), it's clear that the forearms have rotated somewhat already and the club is already well inside. And you know what that means, lol. :facepalm

Great job making the change! :thumbs
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby jasonfish11 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:18 am

So you are pretty much on target. I'm not actually across the line at the top, it's just an illusion because of the overseeing. If you stop when the club is parallel to the ground it is straight down the line.

Also my wrist starts cupping due to the overswing. I'm trying to stop around here. But get my hands a little higher to bring the club back to the ball more on plane instead of below plane like I have been.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby sjduffers » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:32 pm

That's a pretty good position right there. You don't need any more than that for a backswing, especially with an iron. Good job!
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby jasonfish11 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:24 pm

sjduffers wrote:That's a pretty good position right there. You don't need any more than that for a backswing, especially with an iron. Good job!


Just to be clear that is about 6 frames short of where I actually stop. At 60 fps that is 0.1 seconds of actual backswing which are really hard for me to get rid of. :fk
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Postby jasonfish11 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:32 am

I'm so frustrated.

I can't make a good swing on the ball. With no ball I can keep my swing short and get my arms in front of my body, but put the ball in front of me and boom back to no progress. :fk :fkno :fk
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