Just Keep Swimming

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jasonfish11
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:03 am

So my putting sucks.

I determined my average distance to the hole after each putt from different distances and my make percentage from those ranges.

Currently I putt looking at the hole on anything over 10-15ish feet and I look at the ball anything less than that. I'm going to do some different things with my putting to see what produces the best result then just practice the crap out of it. I like looking at the hole, but not sure if it is the most effective. So I'm going to take the winter of no handicap scores and test it. My main 2 tests will be look at the hole 100% of the time (including 2" putts), and look at the ball 100% of the time.

So here is my baseline (last 90 holes)

Distance range - # of putts - Ave remaining distance - Make %
0-5' - 94 - 0.12' - 89%
5-10' - 25 - 0.97' - 16%
10-15' - 10 - 3.2' - 0%
15-20' - 6 - 2.33' - 17%
20-25' - 11 - 2.91' - 0%
25-30' - 10 - 2.5' - 0%
30'+ - 32 - 3.57' - 0%

I dont have a large sample of mid range putts at each of these distances so it might be worth just lumping 10-30' together as one group. But since I have it broken out I'll leave it. If I combined 10-30' as a range it would look like this.

10-30' - 37 - 2.78' - 3%

Now the fun part, experimenting. Ok fun for a stat nerd.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by legitimatebeef » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:48 pm

Do you track these things on the game-golf? I like a more zen-ish approach on the greens but I can see how it is interesting to look at these numbers.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:51 pm

I did get the data from game golf. It doesn't automatically track these specific stats, but it took me 20-30 min to put it all together.

I feel if I'm going to make a change I want data to prove to myself which option is better.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:26 pm

So I've been working on shallowing out my transition for a while. Its getting better but not quite there. I think my "fix" is leading to some issues in the take away. Looks way too inside, but I will see what instructor has to say. Also the very first move in transition still steepens the club.

https://youtu.be/KUZDIA8wTTY

https://youtu.be/Y2Cxw67Fevk
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by legitimatebeef » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:24 pm

What's your misses doing? Toe hooks by any chance? Your downswing looks pretty good from what I can see. At address though you look to be standing kind of far from the ball, with driver anyway.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:39 pm

legitimatebeef wrote:What's your misses doing? Toe hooks by any chance? Your downswing looks pretty good from what I can see. At address though you look to be standing kind of far from the ball, with driver anyway.
Irons are generally really solid. I have no control over trajectory, and my trajectory is really high. It isn't a problem when I can hoist a 5i up and make it land but when I'm hitting wedges into the wind it sucks ass. Normally it is really straight or just a little draw.

My driver is a 2 way miss, toe hooks (1 in ever 5 or 6 swings) and block cuts (3/4 in every 5/6 swings). There is a good 100 yards between the 2 shots. When I square the face up it is a nice booming draw that starts on the target line and falls 5 yards to the left and it is LONG (for me at least). But that happens 1 out of ever 3 or 4 when I'm hitting 3 or 4 drivers in a row on the range. On the course I'm guessing 1 time per round (assuming 10 drivers).

And yes I feel like I have to stand really far away. When I get closer I hit everything off the heel. It may look like toe draws, but most my misses are off the heel (when I miss the center). I use up a lot of athlete's foot spray on my driver lol.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:29 am

legitimatebeef wrote:What's your misses doing? Toe hooks by any chance? Your downswing looks pretty good from what I can see. At address though you look to be standing kind of far from the ball, with driver anyway.

So you called it. I was told to only work on 2 things for the next couple weeks.
1) Get closer to the ball, bend more at knees less at waste.
2) Move ball position back (too far forward in my stance).
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:38 pm

Oh man, I just found out what people mean when they talk about "covering the ball" in your swing. Moving closer to the ball has forced me to feel like my chest is over the ball at impact. I'm sure it isn't, but that is how it feels. If I don't do this I will rock back on my heels and be way off balance. I'm rocking back as an "instinct" to get further from the ball so old swing habits can prevail.

I never realized in the past I wasn't "covering" or "on top of" the ball. It is a very strange feeling.

On the plus side my ball striking has gone to shit.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:14 pm

I've got too many things going on to focus well, right now.

So when I took the above videos I was focused on externally rotating my right arm to shallow the swing out a little. This is still a conscious effort.

Unfortunately I've now added a couple other things to think about.
1) Get closer to the ball.
2) Put the ball further back in stance.
3) Make a full shoulder turn.

I've realized I can't get my arms in front of me and can't hit the ball when I'm that close unless I get a full turn.

I'm normally able to do 3/4 of these things. #1 and 2 are getting done all the time (except they are a conscious effort). #3 and #4 (shallow right arm) rarely both happen, this is due to them both being actions I'm taking at the end of back swing & into transition. The problem is when I only do 3/4 of them the result sucks. When I do all 4 the results are decent, and heading in the right direction.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:44 am

So I may have had an ah'ha moment at the range this morning.

Yesterday I posted how polarized my iron game was. Then something clicked today at the range.

Today I was trying to hit different types of shots, and was never hitting the same club 2 times in a row. When I tried to hit 3/4 irons or flight them down I found that I hit a nice tight draw and the ball generally did exactly what I expected. When I tried to swing full out and crush my irons I tended to over hook them.

Thinking back on yesterday, holes 1-4 I never took a full swing. The other holes I took a full swing and my miss was over hooking the ball.

I think it will take some getting use to on the course. My new swing's 3/4 shot is gaining me about 10 yards over my old full swing. So convincing myself that I only need to swing 3/4 and I have 1 less club in my hand will be a bit of a mind fuck. But I feel if I can do it, I could really see some improvements.

I might wind up playing 18 this weekend (or next) so we'll see how this goes.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by DougE » Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:22 pm

jasonfish11 wrote:So I may have had an ah'ha moment at the range this morning.

When I tried to swing full out and crush my irons I tended to over hook them.

Thinking back on yesterday, holes 1-4 I never took a full swing. The other holes I took a full swing and my miss was over hooking the ball.

I think it will take some getting use to on the course. My new swing's 3/4 shot is gaining me about 10 yards over my old full swing. So convincing myself that I only need to swing 3/4 and I have 1 less club in my hand will be a bit of a mind fuck. But I feel if I can do it, I could really see some improvements.

Had the same 'ah ha' moment earlier this year. My iron game has been the best of my golf career ever since. It was partly due to my one lesson with the club pro. In an effort to not get too far back, my instructor had me hitting 3/4 shots (along with a couple other swing thoughts). What I didn't realize is that they weren't necessarily 3/4, they just felt like 3/4. All the extra movement back I had before was just wasted energy and required more hand/eye coordination to make center contact. I started hitting the ball about 10 yards further with the "3/4" swing and easy tempo, which has also helped me draw the ball much easier than before. There's a lot more to it than that, but a nice easy swing, without trying to load up extra power by going past parallel at the top, has been a great help to my game this year with all my irons and even my hybrid and fairways. My problem is doing it with driver. Just like you, it is very hard psychologically for me to swing as easily as I should with a driver, and only go just past 3/4, but when I can get in the right mindset, I usually hit pretty good drives all day.

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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:18 am

I really hate myself.

Went to the range Sunday. Couldn't find the center of the driver. I've always been told I have a massive difference between practice swing and real swing with driver. Also given my "3/4" irons are working well I tried hitting a smooth "3/4" drive.

Took me 6-8 balls to just put a "3/4" swing on it with a ball there (mental issues). When I did I f'ing murdered the ball. Based on my experience at that range it carried around 270, that was with a 10mph head wind and 45 degrees (balls kept outside too).

I couldn't get the club face square and all of them were push cuts. But they were bombed push cuts. And that can be fixed.

Then I came home and watched tiger's new smoother swing carrying ball 320. And remember how I've always thought he use to swing too hard at driver. :facepalm
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by legitimatebeef » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:02 am

jasonfish11 wrote:I really hate myself.

Took me 6-8 balls to just put a "3/4" swing on it with a ball there (mental issues). When I did I f'ing murdered the ball. Based on my experience at that range it carried around 270, that was with a 10mph head wind and 45 degrees (balls kept outside too).
Maybe consider that there could be technical, physical reasons too. The golf swing is probably more reactive than we'd like to believe.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:15 am

legitimatebeef wrote: Maybe consider that there could be technical, physical reasons too. The golf swing is probably more reactive than we'd like to believe.
Oh I'm pretty sure of this. My swing at 100% and at "3/4" are 2 different swings. The most obvious being I was hitting the center of the club face instead of the heel.

But it feels like it is easier for me to drop the shaft on plane when I'm not trying to kill it (but only video will tell me for certain).
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:00 am

I guess things are starting to get a little better. In my last round I actually struck the ball with my irons pretty well (compared to a scratch golfer). 1.16 strokes better from outside 100 yards, and 0.67 strokes worse from inside 100 yards.

The good part about this is I didn't feel like I hit it that well, it just felt like a normal ball striking round.

The better thing is I felt like my mid/long irons were pretty good, but my wedges were what needed work. Generally for me inside 130 yards is about when I hit my wedges.

On approaches outside 130 yards I hit 6 of 10 greens averaging 20 feet to the hole on those 6 greens (15 feet if you remove the semi-poor 7i on #16 that was 48' from the hole).
On approaches inside 130 yards I hit only 4 or 8 greens averaging 14.25 feet from the hole on those 4 greens (ranging from 5' to 28').

If I can get my driver and putter fixed things might really start coming together.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:33 pm

I hate my driver swing.

When I swing with the same tempo as my practice swing I hit the ball flush in the center. And it goes very far (mostly push or push cut, but much less lateral disparity between the shots).

The problem is you put a ball in front of me and I can't make the same swing I did with my practice swing. I don't have this issue with any other club. Also it doesn't seem to be an issue of trying to get maximum distance. I've been on the driving range and even course trying to grade myself on distance; under 250 yards is a pass, over 250 yards is a fail. Trying to "punish" myself for swinging too hard (of course if I make a nice swing and it goes 280 I still fail the shot, but it's a happy F).

Nothing seems to work.

Stupid damn club.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:13 am

Played 4 holes before work.

Things feel like they are starting to come together other than driver. For the most part I'm able to work the ball both ways, when I hit the ball correctly it does what I want. I'm hitting the ball further than I ever have (and it didn't get above 40* also). Being able to work the ball both ways really helps reduce danger. My miss is to hit is straight.

Shot 2 over but I played 2 balls tee to green on holes 3 and 4 on the 2nd ball I shot -1.

Hole 1 - Heel slice driver into the woods. Had 143 but no shot at the green. I murdered a slice 8i around the trees with about 30 yards of slice to get it to the front edge. 2 putted from about 80' (should have hit 7i but was worried about hitting it straight).
Hole 2 - 3w didn't draw left me 250 to the hole. Blocked another 3w so I had about 40 yards short sided. Put that to 12' and 2 putted for par.
Hole 3 - 180 par 3 sucker pin on left edge right over the bunker. I'm a sucker. I tried drawing a 6i into the tiny corner of the green. Pushed it a little and was on the right edge of the green. 3 putted from over 100'. Ball 2 I hit the right shot to about 15' and 2 putted.
Hole 4 - snap hook driver into the woods. Tiny window that i squeezed a 5i through but it caught a branch. Left me 210 to the flag over water. I pushed this too and wound up 15 yards right of the green. ho hum chip to 10' and 2 putt bogie. Ball 2 hit drive ok (a little low). Had 275 to the flag and 235 to carry the water. Said f' it and murdered a 3w. Not drawing and the ball is taking the long route over the water but I make it by maybe 3 yards (measured that direction it was 242 to carry). 15 yards right of the green got up and down for birdie. To be fair this chip was identical to the one of my 1st ball. So hitting it to 2' could have been due to good practice.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by CeeBee » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:36 pm

Showing beef how it's done...again.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by legitimatebeef » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:53 pm

Come on now. Beef's just trying to be the best he can be. :no
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:30 am

Haven't swung a club in a week.

Given that I figured it would be a good time to take some video. See what my swing looks like in its "natural" form right now. I wasn't very happy.

Inside take away
Across the line at top
These are causing me to stand the shaft up in transition (way too steep).

The positives:
Back swing isn't going past parallel (even with driver).
Hip turn is deep.
Posture looks fine.

As a side note. Beef is taking the existential route to the golf swing. I'm taking the mechanical route. Hopefully we both get where we are going.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by legitimatebeef » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:35 pm

:lolz Maybe it sounds like I am getting all metaphysical and junk. I still need to be technical about setup and positions, I'm just focusing more on the external than the internal. It's no longer about me you see, and my selfish desires. It's about what the club and ball need to do to get to the target, and what I can do to facilitate. In theoretical time-space, there is an ideal swing plane and path for every golf shot. It's all pre-determined by physics and obviously the design of the club. If that's far out then call me the space cowboy.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:36 pm

So wtf does the shaft unloading here mean?
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by sjduffers » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:49 pm

This means nothing. It does not really happen but is an artefact created by the camera. The club cannot physically bend in this manner during a swing.
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:02 pm

Very possible, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

At that point of the swing the club head has the equivalent weight of about 100lb if stagnant
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Re: Keep on Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:16 pm

Here is the same position with a 7i unloading also.
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