Just Keep Swimming

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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:28 pm

I'm starting to come to the conclusion my driver is very ill fit for my current swing. When I put what feels like a normal swing on the ball I get a nice consistent strike with a baby cut. But it launches at 8-10 degrees. When I want to launch the ball I really have a feeling of getting way behind the ball so I can hit way up on it. When I do this and time everything right I bomb a high drive launching it around 15 degrees. But it's super inconsistent, draws fades hooks and slices. After buying the launch monitor I'm not sure my wife will buy the fact I need a new driver lol. Maybe it will mysteriously break soon?
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:45 am

So my last round I really tried to focus on moving the ball towards the target, and not on my golf swing. Things went well on the front 9. I had one mental flub on a chip, but got up & down on the next chip. I also didn't trust my read on the 3' putt on the 1st hole which lead to a 3 putt. 2 mental mistakes that probably cost me 1.5 shots (I assume my first chip which was harder wouldn't have lead to an auto up & down had I committed). So I could have been 1 or 2 over on the tougher 9 on the course.

Then on the back 9 I hit a couple squirrely shots with rounded clubs and suddenly went back to playing golf shot instead of golf. Specially with my woods. I was over swinging for some dumb reason trying to get some extra distance. My irons I was still hitting crisp and clean with an exception of 2 wedges that I bladed on #15 and #17. The ball was flying so damn far though. I had 97 yards into the last green slightly down wind (5-8 mph and the hardest it was blowing all day). I decided to hit a 90 yard LW figuring the wind would give me an extra 3-4 yards, I wanted to be short of the hole with an uphill putt. 90 yards is normally my max I feel comfortable with when hitting that club. I hit the shot I wanted thought it was perfect and 105 yards later I had a tricky down hill double breaking putt.

I've started realizing when I "over swing" the last part of the back swing things get super vertical. It probably looks like a reverse Jim Furyk loop. It prevents me from shallowing the club out and it causes me to come way over the top. At that point I do one of 3 things. Option 1 I come in 3" behind the ball, fat and ugly (or Rosanne Barr as I call it when I'm on Ambien). The 2nd and 3rd option are both results of my right elbow getting behind the seam in my shirt (ie stuck). I either flip everything over in a last ditch effort to save it and snap hook it, or I give up knowing I can't save it and hit the block slice. The really dumb thing is I can't rationalize my over swing. There is some subconscious belief that swinging the club further means I hit it further. On #16 (into the wind) and #18 (down wind) I hit ok but neither were perfect drives and both of them were over 250 yards. I made sure I kept my swing as short as possible on both of them to prevent the over swing I had on #12, #12 again, #12 a 3rd time, #14 and #15. Retraining my subconscious is really difficult. I know logically that when I do things correctly I get the most distance because it just allows my body to fire all it's force at the ball in a very controlled manner. But somewhere in my subconscious is a drunk John Daly that takes over. Does anyone know how to shut up drunk Johnny? Maybe order some hooters at the turn to distract him?
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by legitimatebeef » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:18 am

I have noticed in the past that distance is among your chief concerns. So I suspect that if you really want to rectify the overswing, you will have to address the cognitive impulses, both conscious and subconscious.
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:31 am

Distance has always been my "ace in the hole" so to speak.

Also distance is probably the biggest thing that defines the ceiling in anyone's golfing ability. As well as the fact that distance is the hardest thing to lean in the game.

I'm not some crazy monster off the tee with distance to spare. So my quest for a better swing has always been with an unspoken clause of not losing too much distance.

Generally what I've noticed is that increasing the efficiency of my swing will result in longer shots. It makes it easier for my to "free wheel" it from the top of my back swing. Also it results in a more centered impact on the club face.

The issue I have is this is logical and makes sense when you have time to think about it. But I don't have that much time during the swing. So my inner John Daly comes out as that "short" of a swing doesn't intuitively seem like it will create power.
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by legitimatebeef » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:52 pm

Maybe force yourself to watch the swings of some real long distance/short swingers, like Tony Finau, JB Holmes. Clockwork Orange style. Also start playing at a retirement community. Shit like that.
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:04 pm

I'm from Florida. I played at a retirement community for 25+ years lol.

But yeah I like watching John rhams swing for that reason. There are things I don't like about his swing but it's really short and he murders the ball.
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:48 am

So on your advice I watched some John rham viedos noticed something I don't do (increase the angle between shaft and arms) in transition. I messed with this motion last night while keeping my right elbow in front of my body.

A couple things I noticed were its extremely repeatable. Also ball speed increased 4-5 mph and when I really go at one and catch it around 10 mph. Lastly it's a big draw/hook. I'm not a fan of that ball flight, but it was very consistent so I can work with it.

I'm still certain my driver isn't right for me. I was launching the ball around 10-11 degrees with 1800-2000 rpm. Great launch conditions for a 180+ mph ball speed. Not so much for 150-155 mph ball speed. I need 13-16 degrees and 2600-3000 rpm. Additional loft will help fix both of those. I may add some lead tape to the toe to see if it helps slow down the release, fixing the draw and probably increasing launch angle and spin a little (probably not enough though).


I'm going to the range this morning to try it out in real life.
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by DougE » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:34 am

Try moving the ball an inch or two forward in your stance for a touch more spin and potentially, a better launch angle. Just for shits and giggles and to see what happens. Don't change anything else.

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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:08 am

DougE wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:34 am
Try moving the ball an inch or two forward in your stance for a touch more spin and potentially, a better launch angle. Just for shits and giggles and to see what happens. Don't change anything else.
I already have it off my left heel. But I have tried it as far as left little toe. It was a higher launch but not more spin (just higher angle of attack). The down side is consistency went way down.
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by legitimatebeef » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:02 pm

Had never watched this guy in slo-mo. Super short. Shorter than I thought. Probably as short a backswing as humanly possible.

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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:44 pm

Wow his stance is open. It really looks like he's trying to just hit a big push there. I've never really looked at his swing, but it looks like he does that on every shot.

Here is rham, numerous things I don't like that I wouldn't apply to my swing. But very short as well.

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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by GBOGEY » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:12 pm

How tall are you? These are two big guys. I was told once to pattern my swing after a pro who has similar physical build. Does that apply here?

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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:52 am

I'm 6'.

I'm not mimicking either of those swings, they both have numerous idiosyncrasies specific to them. I'm looking at their swings as motivation that a short swing can be powerful too.

Actually there is no one I'm trying to model my swing after to be honest. I tried that for a while, and didn't like the results. If I had to pick my favorite swing it's someone like minjee Lee, so-yeon Ryu or Adam Scott. But I don't think my swing will ever look like theirs and I'm cool with that.
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by GBOGEY » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:21 am

When I was taking lessons my instructor kept telling me to look how short JB Holmes' swing was - don't get much longer distance wise then him.

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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:44 am

yeah he is another example. He also has some quarkiness to his swing.

His lead elbow breaks down at the top of his swing. He takes the club back pretty flat letting his left arm roll over his right, then the last 1/4 to 1/5 of his back swing he stands the club up more vertical. Then in transition he reverses this move flattens it out and fires his hips. So he spends a good deal of effort getting that club on plane in the down swing.

Not that I wouldn't trade my swing for his and have his results. I would swap in a second. But again it's not really one that any teacher would try to emulate in a student.
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:47 am

Other than looking at how many different ways there are to get the club head back to square and moving at a fast speed. I don't really watch too many videos.

I'm of the belief that if everyone on the planet played golf there would be 8 billion different "perfect" swings.

I really just focus on small things. So for me I know I've gone too far in my back swing when I stand the club up more vertically. Basically when my back swing gets too long I start looking MORE like JB Holmes. But I don't have the talent to recover from that position haha.
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:00 pm

Got to say thanks for telling me to watch some videos beef. I picked up a thing or two that I wasn't doing. I'm hitting the ball much more centered and I picked up 10-20 mph of ball speed. It's insane the difference.

I was hitting the ball very inconsistent with driver and ball speeds around the low to mid 140s. Super flat with no spin. Now the low launch low spin shots are still happening but the ball speed shot up and so did contact and consistency.

I don't know if I've ever hit the 160 club with ball speed on any monitor before. I topped 160 3 times today. If I could get it launching 2-3 degrees higher with mid to high 2000s back spin this should carry around 265-270.
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:03 pm

So I lied I have a screenshot 1 page ago with a 160 ball speed. But it's now much more common and a more consistent result.

Either way thank you beef (and John rham).
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by legitimatebeef » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:55 pm

I'm all about helping people.
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:27 am

So yesterday I was hitting some balls, when one of the oddest feelings in my golf life happened.

I don't really know how to explain this, but I took a swing and mid back swing I really felt the club head. As in it was almost as if I were standing behind myself watching the club head. I felt like I could see the club head in slow motion moving along the plane, through transition and in the downswing. It was a very odd "out of body" type experience.

It happened to be one of the best swings I've put on the ball in a long time. Dead straight with no side spin and long. I normally can remember watching the golf ball in my swing, but I don't remember that at all, it just seemed like I was following the club head the entire way. Very odd, wish I knew what happened and how to repeat it though.
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by GBOGEY » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:01 pm

To which I quote Bobby Jones - "Golf is assuredly a mystifying game. It would seem that if a person has hit a golf ball correctly a thousand times, he should be able to duplicate the performance at will. But such is certainly not the case."

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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:04 pm

So I must say this simulator is probably the best thing I've ever purchased. It gives me the freedom to do basically what ever I want. If you've ever thought of getting one and you have the space, I say go a head and do it. I talked my co-worker into getting one for her husband for fathers day.

Normally when I go to the range and pay for balls, my goal is to hit all of them perfectly. Obviously that isn't realistic, but you get my point. With the simulator there is no worry about "wasting" shots on range balls that have some value to them because I bought them.

Last night I was bored and pulled out an 8i after about 10 or so swings to loosen up, I said screw it lets have some fun. First thing I did was try to hit all 9 shots (low med high, fade straight and draw). It took me a while but I did it. The next thing which I found really enjoyable was I thought "hey lets limbo" and I hit a stock 8i. It launched at 18* with a peak height of 75'. So I started attempting to gradually hit the ball lower and lower until I couldn't hit it lower (I made up some fake rules about it must carry 125 yards and be less than 10 yards from the center line). I kept going down until I hit a "stinger" 8i that launched at 7* with a peak height of 27' and carried 128 yards. Then I said lets do anti-limbo. Same rules except lets go upstairs. I kept going higher until I got one that launched at 25* peak height of 102' and it carried 171 yards :o

I had a lot of fun doing that, and I've read a research paper that indicated intentionally altering your shot shape actually improves your ball striking faster than just trying to hit a stock shot all the time. It also said even better than altering the flight, is trying to alter where the ball hits the face (heel, toe, thin, and center). But I had never done it before on the range because who the hell wants to waste a bucket of balls hitting slices and hooks (which I also did for some fun).
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by legitimatebeef » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:28 pm

You are as far as I am concerned livin the dream and for that I salute you. You make a good observation about our perceived value of range balls, and it absolutely restricts the way we practice. Hitting balls should be fun and creative, all the way. The range here is a literal box, like 40x200 yards, so you have to get creative. I have to, at least, or else I would've quit hitting balls a long time ago.

Having a sim at home is something I aspire to. First I have to move out of the city. :onfire Someday.

I'll try hitting off the toe and heel, never really thought of that before but maybe it makes sense.
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by jasonfish11 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:30 am

I know NYC everything is small. But you don't need a ton of room as long as you're ok breaking it down and putting it up every time. I think the minimum amount of room to hit driver is 8' wide 12' long 10' high. I can measure my room later and see.

As for breaking it down and setting it up when I need to it takes 5 min?

That being said ifeel noise is a bigger issue when living in an apartment type building. You'd probably piss off your neighbors hitting driver.
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Re: Just Keep Swimming

Post by legitimatebeef » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:49 am

I actually pondered it yesterday. There is space to swing a club, but that space also serves as the, uh, living room. You're right though besides the space, the noise is the main concern. I'd have to rent out the apartment below too.

Realistically I think I could do it--if I limit to pitching and chipping. That'd be a hoot. Short game simulator.
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