Learning to go low

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jasonfish11
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Learning to go low

Postby jasonfish11 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:59 am

So I've toyed around with the idea of playing a forward set of tees (5500 yards) until I can average 78 or better over 5 rounds, then moving back 1 set of tees until I can average 78 or better over 5 rounds, so on and so forth.

Given I normally play with randoms, what would you think if you were playing your normal tee box, and someone who just got paired with you decided to play the shorter tees and proceeds to wait for the green to clear on a hole 1 (304 yards from the shorter tees)? Not that I expect to drive the green; but it isn't so unlikely for me to get close enough to distract the people putting, that I'd normally wait.

I really feel like doing this would benefit my game (actually probably would benefit everyone's game). But I hesitate due to the response I think it would generate.

To be fair I play very quickly, no one has ever accused me of causing a round to be long. One of the 1st golf lessons my dad ever gave me was "You can either be good, or be fast. And you won't be considered 'good' until you have at least 1 major." I know he's a real motivational speaker, but it is how I play golf still.
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Re: Learning to go low

Postby legitimatebeef » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:12 am

Why not take some ownership of the tees. They are there to be used. We as a society have made great strides by changing their appellation from "ladies' tees" to "women's tees" and now to "forward tees". We should walk the walk and start using them too. Be progressive IMO, you just might influence others to do the same. Be the change you wish to see in the world. Or some shit like that.
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Re: Learning to go low

Postby legitimatebeef » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:12 am

Having said that, is that really going to help you score? I thought you were having some specific mechanical issues with your swing.
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Re: Learning to go low

Postby jasonfish11 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:20 am

legitimatebeef wrote:Having said that, is that really going to help you score? I thought you were having some specific mechanical issues with your swing.


Why are those things mutually exclusive?

I think this would really push my tee ball & my short game. There are a couple holes where it wouldn't make a difference at all because I'm hitting to a specific area in the fairway. So I'm hitting 5i now instead of driver. But overall I think it would really force you to drive the ball well and be able to get up & down from inside 100 yards very well.

But, to be fair I meant after I've recovered my shit stained swing into something serviceable.
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Re: Learning to go low

Postby GBOGEY » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:51 am

To be blunt, yes I would think it was a little jerky if someone wanted to tee it forward and then wait for the green to clear in order to drive the green. If you really want to do this, you may want to hit a long iron of fairway wood.

But I'm with Beef, is this really what is going to help your game? If you think you are losing the most shots with either your short game or scoring wedges, then maybe yes. You could also do something similar if you have an executive course nearby (that's what I typically do when I want to practice scoring shots under real conditions). But if driver is your struggle, not sure how this helps. You might be better off finding a relatively short course, say 6000-6100, that is pretty wide open off the tee.

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Re: Learning to go low

Postby bryan k » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:13 pm

I've been known to play the forward tees from time to time.

The reason I tend to avoid it is for exactly the reason you mentioned. It changes my game for the only purpose of trying to avoid having the people behind me wait. I'm not going to try to drive the 300 yard green if another group comes up to the tee while I'm still waiting for the group in front of me to clear the green.

I think that's a big part of the reason why they make the tees at different distances.

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Re: Learning to go low

Postby jfurr » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:42 pm

Try it on a course that is empty. Else you might better hit 6 iron off the tee to avoid waiting.
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Re: Learning to go low

Postby Duke of Hazards » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:46 pm

Good luck if you try it, but I doubt it'll affect your scores much. I play white tees mostly because my usual playing partner doesn't hit it very far. I score the same, but my differential is higher, due to the lower slope rating of those tees.

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Re: Learning to go low

Postby GBOGEY » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:56 pm

Duke of Hazards wrote:Good luck if you try it, but I doubt it'll affect your scores much. I play white tees mostly because my usual playing partner doesn't hit it very far. I score the same, but my differential is higher, due to the lower slope rating of those tees.


My experience is similar - between the weird tee angles and the fact that fairways narrow as you get closer to the green driving the ball can be much more difficult when you play it forward. There's a reason pros hit FW and iron off the tees a lot.

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Re: Learning to go low

Postby jasonfish11 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:58 pm

GBOGEY wrote:
Duke of Hazards wrote:Good luck if you try it, but I doubt it'll affect your scores much. I play white tees mostly because my usual playing partner doesn't hit it very far. I score the same, but my differential is higher, due to the lower slope rating of those tees.


My experience is similar - between the weird tee angles and the fact that fairways narrow as you get closer to the green driving the ball can be much more difficult when you play it forward. There's a reason pros hit FW and iron off the tees a lot.


The course I play has between 9 and 10 holes where I could easily still pull driver from a forward tee. #17 is the variable, but by the time I get there I will either be pissed off, and pull driver trying to reach the green. I'll be going super low and want to push it lower, so I'll pull driver. Or I'll be not happy with my driving but scoring ok, so I'll pull 6/7i and put it where I normally put my 4i.
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Re: Learning to go low

Postby bryan k » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:47 am

My regular course is par 70 for men and par 72 for women. That should give you an idea of how difficult the forward tees still are.

Comparatively speaking, the course isn't *that* difficult. It's just that the red tees still have plenty of distance.

I like, though, how some courses give you a completely different feel from the forward tees. I typically have an unwritten rule. There are maybe six or seven golf courses I've played as many as 50 times. If I've played a course 50 times, it means that I've played from all of the tees.

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Re: Learning to go low

Postby DougE » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:22 am

Just an observation I have made. Our tees have been moved up most of the winter. I am not a long hitter. Generally speaking, I hit the ball straight and rarely lose a ball. Penalties are not something that normally affects my score. (Not never, just rarely.) So, playing a shorter course over the winter did allow me to go lower more often than in-season. I would say I was about 2-3 strokes better on average on the shortened winter course. Mostly as a result of hitting more greens.

HOWEVER, I often saw guys playing the shortened set-up, who are much longer than me off the tee, get in the same, if not more trouble than usual than they do from our regular in-season tees. If you can't control your shots, particularly if you are a big bomber, shorter tees can actually be even worse for your scores, especially if you think you can drive some of the greens now from the shorter distance.

I played with a young bomber last week. He was about 6'4" and 24 years old. When he kept one in play off the tee, it went 300 yards. But when he missed (which was more often than not) he missed big and was reaching in his pocket for another ball. He actually finished the round using range balls because he had none of his own left. (Luckily, we finished on the 9th, which is right alongside the range.)

Moral: Shorter tees doesn't always equal lower score. If you have a solid game all around, then yes, maybe. If you use your head and think your way around, probably. But if you muscle your way around a course, then not necessarily. As CeeBee has stated regarding shorter yardage set ups, "You still gotta get the ball in the hole!"

Personally, I get a kick out of playing with big hitters from shorter tees, who think their distance abilities makes them good players. It really exposes their weaknesses and pisses them off, when the old guy (me) just keeps parring and bogeying them to death! :thrust

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Re: Learning to go low

Postby jfurr » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:52 am

^ Doug I agree, and can sympathize with the long and wrong guy. Plus you still need short game when teeing forward.
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Re: Learning to go low

Postby jasonfish11 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:53 am

I can't swing a club well enough to want to step on the tee box right now. So it doesn't really matter.
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Re: Learning to go low

Postby DougE » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:23 am

jasonfish11 wrote:I can't swing a club well enough to want to step on the tee box right now. So it doesn't really matter.


Yes you can. I have seen your swing and it's not far off. Don't sell yourself short. It's in there.

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Re: Learning to go low

Postby jasonfish11 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:28 am

DougE wrote:Yes you can. I have seen your swing and it's not far off. Don't sell yourself short. It's in there.


I agree it isn't that far off.

I'm just at a loss for being able to shorten my swing. The length of my swing is what is driving my inconsistencies right now.

I'm just running out of ideas on how to shorten my swing. Unless I just try to hit a large bucket, hitting nothing but pitch shots w/ my 7i. I mean seriously try to over exaggerate the shortness, and honestly try to keep a 7i w/in 100 yards (or just absolutely hit some bunt drivers). Instead of thinking 100 yards but being ok with it going 150.

I'm so out of ideas on shortening this thing that after seeing a video of this morning I texted my wife stating I'm no longer looking forward to going to the masters, because everyone is playing golf the day before. I just don't want to go play golf.
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Re: Learning to go low

Postby legitimatebeef » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:26 pm

Fish, I am sure I asked this before but why are you trying to shorten your backswing? And don't say consistency.

Rather, do you have any ideas about why your backswing's long? I mean from a physics perspective. Is it an issue of timing, or of generating power? I am pretty sure that when I used to take it back too far it's because I needed the power. I was more of a caster than a lagger, and I don't have the self-esteem to live with 150y 7-irons. So I needed the big swing.
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Re: Learning to go low

Postby jfurr » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:45 pm

jasonfish11 wrote:I texted my wife stating I'm no longer looking forward to going to the masters, because everyone is playing golf the day before. I just don't want to go play golf.


You'll feel different when you get down here and catch Masters fever!
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Re: Learning to go low

Postby jasonfish11 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:54 pm

legitimatebeef wrote:Fish, I am sure I asked this before but why are you trying to shorten your backswing? And don't say consistency.

Rather, do you have any ideas about why your backswing's long? I mean from a physics perspective. Is it an issue of timing, or of generating power? I am pretty sure that when I used to take it back too far it's because I needed the power. I was more of a caster than a lagger, and I don't have the self-esteem to live with 150y 7-irons. So I needed the big swing.


So why I want to change it:
I notice that the extra "length" in my backswing is putting my body into some positions that aren't easy to recover from. I have been able (with good timing) to hit the ball really well some days, but other's it was not an easy thing. The length is causing my elbow & wrist to both fold over, which then forces me to make my transition steeper. I can recover from this with some bad-ass timing, but sometime's that is off.

Do you remember how I said my ball striking would turn to crap when I played with 1 friend of mine? He was my personal foil? The more I watch my swing the more I feel it wasn't him, it was the pressure I would add to myself while playing him. That pressure resulted in poor timing and bad results.


I think that my long swing originated from when I was young. I started playing golf when I was 5 years old. When I was young I probably determined extra length = extra distance. Fast forward 27 years, the long backswing is still there but I no longer have this need for extra distance (of course it would be nice, but the need isn't there).

On a side note are you saying a 150 yard 7i isn't good enough? How far are you wanting to hit the ball? I would guess an honest 150 yard average 7i is better than the average amateur can do.
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Re: Learning to go low

Postby GBOGEY » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:56 pm

When I took lessons the pro always pointed to JB Holmes who hits it as far as anyone with a short back swing.

I hit my 7i 150 and consider myself to be a little above average, although that could be a function of usually playing with middle aged guys (and older). When I took up golf 8 years ago, I was all over the internet trying to understand what was "average." The best I came up with, and still have it in my master golf spreadsheet, is the average 7i was 120-140 yards. Adjusting for today's clubs versus 8 years ago, probably needs to be 130-150.

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Re: Learning to go low

Postby legitimatebeef » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:15 pm

jasonfish11 wrote:On a side note are you saying a 150 yard 7i isn't good enough? How far are you wanting to hit the ball? I would guess an honest 150 yard average 7i is better than the average amateur can do.


No way Jose. I should get at least 160 out of a 7-iron, that's not asking a lot.
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Re: Learning to go low

Postby sjduffers » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:27 pm

legitimatebeef wrote:
jasonfish11 wrote:On a side note are you saying a 150 yard 7i isn't good enough? How far are you wanting to hit the ball? I would guess an honest 150 yard average 7i is better than the average amateur can do.


No way Jose. I should get at least 160 out of a 7-iron, that's not asking a lot.


Way! There is no way my 7 iron goes 150 unless it's downwind downhill. I am talking about 130-135 yards of carry (flat, no or little wind and sea level) and on typical greens, the ball stops within 2-3 yards from there. 160 yards is really above average of what I am seeing day in and day out.
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Re: Learning to go low

Postby DougE » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:40 pm

For me, I get 140-150 yrds with my blade-style AP2 7i in summer/warm conditions, from the short grass/fairway, when I flush it. It's certainly doesn't have a juiced-up loft like a game improvement 7i. With firm conditions, it might roll out a bit more with a shot from light rough, with no spin, to 155-160. In the cold, it is drastically less. Guess I'm a wimp....or old....or both.

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Re: Learning to go low

Postby jasonfish11 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:59 pm

I think I have a gapping issue lol.

Not sure why but I just don't hit my 6i well frequently.
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Re: Learning to go low

Postby bkuehn1952 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:14 am

DougE wrote:For me, I get 140-150 yrds with my blade-style AP2 7i in summer/warm conditions, from the short grass/fairway, when I flush it. It's certainly doesn't have a juiced-up loft like a game improvement 7i. With firm conditions, it might roll out a bit more with a shot from light rough, with no spin, to 155-160. In the cold, it is drastically less. Guess I'm a wimp....or old....or both.


This time of year I start to believe I have finally lost it. Crush my driver...185 yards. :facepalm Crush my 7 iron and come up short from 130 yards. :facepalm
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