Wrist Hinge & Putting

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legitimatebeef
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Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby legitimatebeef » Sat May 27, 2017 4:49 pm

This is a new thought for me and instead of researching it on the internet thought I'd open up a discussion here first.

I have been working hard on the wrist hinge in my full swing. That has led to major improvements. I worked the changes into chipping, and pitching strokes, also to great effect.

Now, I am wondering about the role of wrist hinge in the putting stroke. On longer putts I noticed that if I hinge on the backswing, like with chips and pitches, I have much better feel for the speed the putter head is traveling at, both back and through. It's making more sense as I think about it. Previously I operated under the assumption that one must keep the wrists firm, and then move the putter only by a rocking of the shoulders. "Take the hands out of it" Now I am doubting the wisdom of that kind of thinking.

The putter is fairly heavy, whenever you swing it considerable momentum is generated. Sure you can choke off most of that momentum with firm wrists, but at what expense to feel? Is my question to you.
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Re: Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby sjduffers » Sat May 27, 2017 5:58 pm

Don't. Do. It.

Don't keep firm wrists either. What you want is no moving wrists (which can easily throw off the trajectory by an angle of a degree or two, more than enough to miss a putt), and not applying tension anywhere in you arms/wrists. Just swing like a pendulum with your shoulders around a dead still head/spine and don't accelerate at impact (or even worse, decelerate). That's all. You're welcome! :school
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Re: Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby DougE » Sat May 27, 2017 8:01 pm

sjduffers wrote:Don't. Do. It.

Don't keep firm wrists either. What you want is no moving wrists (which can easily throw off the trajectory by an angle of a degree or two, more than enough to miss a putt), and not applying tension anywhere in you arms/wrists. Just swing like a pendulum with your shoulders around a dead still head/spine and don't accelerate at impact (or even worse, decelerate). That's all. You're welcome! :school


Exactly!

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Re: Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby legitimatebeef » Sun May 28, 2017 6:10 pm

You guys seems very definitive on this subject. But I want to see some resumes before I throw this idea out the window. You all are probably picturing me with wrists flopping about in all random directions.
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Re: Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby sjduffers » Sun May 28, 2017 6:35 pm

legitimatebeef wrote:You guys seems very definitive on this subject. But I want to see some resumes before I throw this idea out the window. You all are probably picturing me with wrists flopping about in all random directions.


Ah! No wrists flopping everywhere, but trying the Mickelson "hinge and hold" with the putter, to some extent. A very bad idea...

My resume is simple: I average 30.6 putts per round, at the moment (last 20 rounds) and since the beginning of the year (40 rounds), or 1.70 putt per hole, my lowest putts count in a round is 24, which is 12 1-putt and 6 2-putts (I also had a few 25 and 26 rounds, etc...). My 3-putt average is 3.8% (so one 3-putt every 25 holes or so). This also means that I use 1 putt on roughly 1/3 of all the holes I play, 2 putts on just under 2/3 of the holes and 3-putts on a fairly small fraction. I holed out a 50 footer for birdie across the green, just this week: center cup, baby! :banana :thrust

My handicap index is 10.1 right now, and I brought it down from the mid-20s about halfway with the short game, including putting (were I used to average 35-36 putts per round) and halfway with the long game. Trust me, I am not a particularly good golfer and especially not a long one, but I am competent at the short game and dare I even say, more than decent at putting.

I see so many things wrong that people do day in and day out with the putter. I have "fixed" a couple of my friends with a half hour session after a round on a practice green here or there, but it pains me to see all the wasted good shots ruined by poor putting... :wah
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Re: Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby legitimatebeef » Mon May 29, 2017 12:23 am

I wonder if the wrists hinging is even perceptible to an outside observer. For all you know, "hinge" is merely the thought picture I need to recalibrate my experience of a sound stroke.
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Re: Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby bryan k » Tue May 30, 2017 5:41 pm

I'd like to offer my $0.02.

The logical analysis:

The wrist hinge. We do it to generate club speed at impact. The cost is variance in the angle of the club face at impact.

Make your own choice from there.

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Re: Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby sjduffers » Tue May 30, 2017 7:58 pm

But the speed needed for a putt, even a long one like say 60ft (or even 100ft) can easily be generated with a pendulum swing powered by the big shoulder muscles, at fairly slow speed. The backswing (and forward swing) just needs to be a bit longer, with the same tempo. I can't see the need for speed at impact as a good reason to hinge, for a putt. For everything else (including a low spinner chip), yes, but a putt, no. JMHO.
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Re: Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby bryan k » Tue May 30, 2017 10:37 pm

sjduffers wrote:But the speed needed for a putt, even a long one like say 60ft (or even 100ft) can easily be generated with a pendulum swing powered by the big shoulder muscles, at fairly slow speed. The backswing (and forward swing) just needs to be a bit longer, with the same tempo. I can't see the need for speed at impact as a good reason to hinge, for a putt. For everything else (including a low spinner chip), yes, but a putt, no. JMHO.


I completely agree.

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Re: Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby legitimatebeef » Wed May 31, 2017 2:01 pm

Most great putters will say you need a bit of wrist action for feel. Look it up.
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Re: Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby sjduffers » Wed May 31, 2017 9:46 pm

legitimatebeef wrote:Most great putters will say you need a bit of wrist action for feel. Look it up.


I put "putting wrist action" into Google, and the second result that comes up is:
http://www.golfwrx.com/160379/wrist-action-and-its-effect-on-the-putting-stroke/

It's a lengthy but worthwhile read if you want to understand what happens with wrist action.

It's true that the "pop" stroke that Brandt Snedeker uses involves a bit of wrist action, and I think Brad Faxon uses some too, and those 2 guys are some of the best putters around, so clearly some wrist action can be made to work! :fk :thumbs

Just be aware of the dangers of wrist action, as explained in the article. Note that when I advocate no wrist action, I don't advocate firm wrists either. I putt with soft hands and stable wrists: perhaps they move a little (i.e. for a small arc motion), but it's not anything conscious I am doing with them, such as hinging. :school
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Re: Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby legitimatebeef » Wed May 31, 2017 11:39 pm

sjduffers wrote:
legitimatebeef wrote:Most great putters will say you need a bit of wrist action for feel. Look it up.


I put "putting wrist action" into Google, and the second result that comes up is:
http://www.golfwrx.com/160379/wrist-action-and-its-effect-on-the-putting-stroke/

It's a lengthy but worthwhile read if you want to understand what happens with wrist action.

It's true that the "pop" stroke that Brandt Snedeker uses involves a bit of wrist action, and I think Brad Faxon uses some too, and those 2 guys are some of the best putters around, so clearly some wrist action can be made to work! :fk :thumbs

Just be aware of the dangers of wrist action, as explained in the article. Note that when I advocate no wrist action, I don't advocate firm wrists either. I putt with soft hands and stable wrists: perhaps they move a little (i.e. for a small arc motion), but it's not anything conscious I am doing with them, such as hinging. :school


This is where I'm coming from. I used to try too hard to stabilize the wrists. Now I'm sort of realizing that that kind of thought makes me tense. I have bad distance control, even on shortish putts. Implementing more (and better) wrist cock has bigly improved all my other strokes, it is only natural that I seek out a similar correction to my shitty putting stroke.
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Re: Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby bryan k » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:17 am

I would think that someone who takes hundreds (if not more) of practice putts every day might be better suited to making a deliberate wrist hinge while putting. Also, maybe someone who struggles more with distance control than with pinpoint accuracy would benefit as well. I've suddenly been tempted to give this a try.

Seriously, though, I have experimented with a small amount of wrist action on long lag putts. I didn't see an advantage or a disadvantage. I do, however, see, at least for my game, a huge disadvantage on short putts. But notice that I"m not complaining about my short putting. I would say that my short putting is about where it needs to be for my present handicap. Lag putting, though, is by far the worst part of my game.

I even tried looking up at the hole like has been mentioned in this forum recently, and the results bordered on catastrophic.

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Re: Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby legitimatebeef » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:18 pm

Well, I took my hingy stroke out to the site of two US Opens. Results weren't great obviously but after holding it up to the fire I am convinced that feeling the hinge works for me. Helps me feel the weight of the head which then helps me feel distance better.

To you people who will cite face alignment as a reason for not hinging wrists, I would counter that wrists are merely one factor of many in face alignment. For instance you could own the stablest wrists on the planet but if you have bad tempo and/or feel, then guess what, you are going to have face alignment issues as a result. Believe me. In my personal hell I am not so concerned about the alignment of the fucking face, pardon the language. What I am concerned about is a proper release. Good contact. Hitting long lag putts to within the general area code of the hole and so on.
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Re: Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby jfurr » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:30 pm

Beef,

I forgot to show you the demonstration of my "aha" moment regarding early extension.
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Re: Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby legitimatebeef » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:59 am

Dangit.
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Re: Wrist Hinge & Putting

Postby legitimatebeef » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:23 pm

legitimatebeef wrote:Well, I took my hingy stroke out to the site of two US Opens. Results weren't great obviously but after holding it up to the fire I am convinced that feeling the hinge works for me. Helps me feel the weight of the head which then helps me feel distance better.


Hingy sounds like the name of the next Korean LPGA phenom.
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