Early Extension

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legitimatebeef
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Re: Early Extension

Post by legitimatebeef » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:32 pm

jfurr wrote:
legitimatebeef wrote:Jfurr, how about trying to let the club swing you for a change? All this talk about what your body is doing, but what about the club? It has needs too. It also needs to move in a certain way in order to achieve a good strike. Alls I am saying, is why not take a backseat, and let the motion of the club take priority for once?
Because that doesn't work. It's wishful thinking. Plus that's basically what I did all last year - I tried to just think about the ball flight, impact etc. Inconsistent floundering is what I got.

I'm telling you, the incorrect hip movement is the cause of my club getting stuck, OTT, fatz, shankfests, and generally shitting swing.
I hear that, just wondering if the cause of the incorrect movement has ever been considered, the cause behind the cause. Because I can confirm that you are a capable person, with above average coordination. Why does a person with your facilities have to suck so bad? Why would you keep on making the bad movements unless it's just your body reacting to mixed signals from the brain. I realize I am probably annoying like an overzealous religious convert. I mean well though. :no
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jfurr
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Re: Early Extension

Post by jfurr » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:54 pm

I hit two large buckets at the range tonight. It started poor the first few swings, but I went to the mat and hit a few until I found my rhythm, then back to the grass. Made some progress, feeling the right move - but noticed was hitting the ball really thin. Damn thin. I figure I'm coming in with a more shallow, less steep path so my angle of attack is less. Anyway, then I had a real aha moment.

I realize that I had developed an odd tendency in my pre-swing setup routine. When addressing the ball, I have been hovering the clubhead in the air behind the ball. (too high, like 3 inches above the ball). Probably as a means to fight the fatz. Anyway, check this out- it just occurred to me that when I finish my waggle, and as a way to initiate the swing, drop the clubhead down actually behind the ball and guess what happens? I get in more of a squat position. Not standing as upright tall. Then, when I do the swing, I feel almost like I can "freeze" my butt bone in place. It worked. I starting hitting great sounding and feeling irons with that awesome compression feeling and gained distance. No shit. Now, I still hit a bunch of stinkers, as I am still finding my way with this new concept. But a much better range session than I've had in a long time.

Also, I don't have the youtube video, but one of the many I watched on EE and hip movement in the downswing, showed me a tip that also helped on the left hip move. The pro was standing beside a bench (to his left side, behind him). He said, when you start the downswing, pretend like you are going to sit down back there on the bench. Good analogy.

It's going to be tough but I'm more encouraged than been in a long time.
I'm gonna hit a provisional
HCP Index :facepalm

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jfurr
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Re: Early Extension

Post by jfurr » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:40 pm

As a bonus from the range I pulled a groin muscle and am hobbling around today
I'm gonna hit a provisional
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Re: Early Extension

Post by jfurr » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:39 pm

some interesting thoughts in this one about muscle tightness causing EE

I'm gonna hit a provisional
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Re: Early Extension

Post by legitimatebeef » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:26 am

Try that rolling massage stick. I've been using it every day. Feel like everyone should be doing this sort of thing.
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jfurr
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Re: Early Extension

Post by jfurr » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:39 pm

Did I ever mention that I FINALLY found the root cause of my EE last year? Maybe I did, but I’ll post again because I’m bored and can’t sleep.

Painfully obvious / hidden in plain sight - Incorrect hip movement in downswing. It would be much easier to illustrate with a video but I’ll try to describe.

Basically, I had a good pretty good hip move going back, but from the top a disaster happened. I believe I posted how I felt like my hips were “spinning out” or “too fast” and I got “stuck” etc. All of that was due to a very simple, incorrect move:

So if you imagine looking from above at the hips being turned back (such as the illustrations in Hogan’s five lessons), the hips are like an oval shape turned back like 45 degrees. The wrong move from that I was doing (as a RH golfer) was I was keeping my left hip socket static, and moving my right hip socket forward and towards the ball. This moved me closer to the ball, forces the steep path, stand up, gunch whatever you want to call it. The ugly swing.

Versus if I do the opposite it’s so much more free and no EE: keep the RIGHT hip in place, and move the LEFT hip BACK and AWAY from the ball. I still am turning and coming down and through but in a totally different way.

I had some good results in the last year since I discovered this, but my old swing keeps showing back up subconsciously. I just haven’t practiced and played enough. I’m going to try to be very conscious of it tomorrow in my round.
I'm gonna hit a provisional
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Re: Early Extension

Post by Duke of Hazards » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:47 pm

Good luck. I also had a very positive range session recently involving hip movement, but for me it was the pic from Five Lessons showing the band attached to the wall and to the left hip. For me, a setup and backswing issue, making sure to avoid reverse pivot/hip sway (breakdown of the left hip/maintaining a firm left side).

Sounds like your issue was a transition problem, if I'm reading correctly.

The hard part with limited practice/play is you think you've knocked out one problem and another one creeps up, but it's the same one you fixed 8 range sessions ago but you forgot about it, and then the cycle continues. At least, I think, your body remembers a little bit so when it does creep back in, it's not as bad. And so there's general improvement over time.
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Re: Early Extension

Post by legitimatebeef » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:54 am

As usual I am going to be the annoying guy and ask Why? As in, why would you guys make such faulty hip moves in the first place? You are not assholes, and having seen Jfurr swing a club I can attest that he is not unathletic.

Sorry for being annoying but at least know that I am always trying to examine my own shit in a similar way. My blanket suspicion is that bad body movements tend to be reflex responses to the club being in a less than ideal position, at a crucial moment.

True to annoying form, I have no remedies or solutions to offer. I just feel that the "Why?" is generally a useful question to ask. I am all about the holistic approach to healing one's swing.
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Re: Early Extension

Post by Duke of Hazards » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:02 pm

For me, it's more setup and visualization issues. I've always fought right side dominance in the swing. I'm going to the range tomorrow to work on the things that I was doing right this past session. Try to ingrain them a bit more.
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Re: Early Extension

Post by legitimatebeef » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:12 pm

Forget about the hips for a moment and try driving the right knee in towards the left. I don't know, just a thought.
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Re: Early Extension

Post by DougE » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:25 pm

legitimatebeef wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:12 pm
Forget about the hips for a moment and try driving the right knee in towards the left. I don't know, just a thought.
That is the last thing I do, just before starting back with the club. I preset the right knee inward. My club pro gave me this tip last year during a 2-hr lesson and it made a world of difference. I have been doing it ever since. It is now an integral part of my set-up and swing. Don't even think about it anymore. It just happens as a normal course of my swing.

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Re: Early Extension

Post by legitimatebeef » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:03 pm

DougE wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:25 pm
legitimatebeef wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:12 pm
Forget about the hips for a moment and try driving the right knee in towards the left. I don't know, just a thought.
That is the last thing I do, just before starting back with the club. I preset the right knee inward. My club pro gave me this tip last year during a 2-hr lesson and it made a world of difference. I have been doing it ever since. It is now an integral part of my set-up and swing. Don't even think about it anymore. It just happens as a normal course of my swing.
How about during downswing? Have you ever worked on the right knee, getting it to go towards the target/left knee more vs. kicking out towards the ball?

This topic has gotten me thinking about my own action. I still extend a bit early, and my right knee goes out toward the ball. Cause or effect I'm not sure but it also means the right leg straightens probably too early. As a result I am still standing the shaft up near impact. Leaving myself no choice.
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Re: Early Extension

Post by DougE » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:14 pm

That's the whole point of starting from that position. I push off from the inside of my right foot with much more ease. Though I can't actually swing right now due to a whopping hip/back issue I did not plan on, trying to picture my turn through the ball I see my right knee pointing more towards my left one than down at the ball. I typically touch my right knee to my left at the finish. I'm going to try to swing at a range in awhile, just to see what the pain is like. If I can swing through I'll pay attention to my knee to see what's happening.

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Re: Early Extension

Post by jfurr » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:47 pm

Duke of Hazards wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:47 pm
Sounds like your issue was a transition problem, if I'm reading correctly.

The hard part with limited practice/play is you think you've knocked out one problem and another one creeps up, but it's the same one you fixed 8 range sessions ago but you forgot about it, and then the cycle continues. At least, I think, your body remembers a little bit so when it does creep back in, it's not as bad. And so there's general improvement over time.
Yep - at transition my right leg/hip went forward towards the ball. Also that kinda caused my right heel to come up off the ground early.

Do it the new way feels 100% better, more freedom, less restricted etc. Really opens up the "pocket" to let the arms/club come through.

I totally agree on that last paragraph also. I need to make a pre-flight checklist of everything to remember and keep it in my golf back to review...
I'm gonna hit a provisional
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Re: Early Extension

Post by jfurr » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:50 pm

legitimatebeef wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:54 am
As usual I am going to be the annoying guy and ask Why? As in, why would you guys make such faulty hip moves in the first place? You are not assholes, and having seen Jfurr swing a club I can attest that he is not unathletic.
I didn't realize I was doing it. And I've looked at slow motion video of a couple hundred of my swings over the years, and even went to see a could golf pro's for help specifically with trying to work on this and they didn't even catch it. That's why I'm saying it was like a damn snake in the grass right in front of me when I figured it out.

The big adjustment I have to make is 1) if I'm really going for a hard swing or big drive, the old move creeps back, and 2) I have to really work on having a nice balanced finish because sometimes I an out of balance in the follow through being in a different position. Also my swing plane is flatter since I'm not jumping up anymore and that make the contact with the ground different etc. Wish I figured this out six years ago...
I'm gonna hit a provisional
HCP Index :facepalm

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Re: Early Extension

Post by jattruia » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:33 pm

So you getting back on the course now JFurr??

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Re: Early Extension

Post by jfurr » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:08 pm

jattruia wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:33 pm
So you getting back on the course now JFurr??
I'm hoping to! My weekends are pretty slammed pack but I want to get some practice in before my beach trip.
I'm gonna hit a provisional
HCP Index :facepalm

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