Bawlz

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jasonfish11
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Re: Bawlz

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:00 pm

Also to be more clear, that blue dot is where I want my ball to end. Given I typically hit a cut that moves about 5ish yards my "start line" is barely going over the top of the left fringe. There are 3 trees behind the green about 50 yards back, my start point is the left tree behind the green. I've never drawn a line from the tee box to the center of that tree, and I find it a little funny that it basically takes my "stock" cut right back to where the blue dot was. I'm glad my "aiming" tree and my math seem to be working together here, or else I'd really be feeling dumber for not following my own advice.

To add to your comment about variation due to lie, weather, etc. One day with a very strong left to right wind I aimed at the tree that is all by itself over there on the left. I didn't convince myself it was the right place to aim and my subconscious left the club face wide ass open and I hit a banana slice into the middle of the lake. But it still shows that intuition and feel are still a necessary part of how I play the game.
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Re: Bawlz

Post by DougE » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:17 pm

I just got back from playing. Hit the ball okay, but wasn't real sharp. This discussion must have been in my head. Is there a program that can take THAT into consideration?

In my defense, the wind was honking.

And all of a sudden, I seem to be having some tendinitis in my elbow as of midway through yesterday's round. It was worse today. Haven't had that issue for a long time. Didn't affect my driver too much, or full swing irons, but half swing pitching irritated it. Might need a few days off.

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Re: Bawlz

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:40 pm

DougE wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:17 pm
I just got back from playing. Hit the ball okay, but wasn't real sharp. This discussion must have been in my head. Is there a program that can take THAT into consideration?
I believe decade golf has a mental score card. It's too expensive for me to do it, but I am impressed with what I see.
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Re: Bawlz

Post by DougE » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:14 pm

How the hell do they figure out that algorithm?

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Re: Bawlz

Post by jasonfish11 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:01 pm

I don't know. I think you just give yourself a pass/fail grade based on some guidelines.

Then you have some data around the ability to stay in the right state of mind or something like that. I'm sure it's not perfect but data > no data in my mind
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Re: Bawlz

Post by DougE » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:38 am

Not to beat a dead horse, or add any new thoughts on what has already been said, but this very short article in GolfWeek supports what most people who play a lot of golf already believe. What it doesn't mention is that you really need to play a certain ball all the time to get to know it well. For me, playing one model of ball nearly exclusively for months or years at a time, makes feeling the differences in other balls that much more obvious to me.

https://golfweek.com/2018/12/04/golfers ... olf-balls/

One more short story to bore you further:

Last Sunday, I hit a drive with my yellow AVX, which hit the fairway, bounced and rolled just left into the rough. When I got to the area, I immediately saw a yellow ball. I got up to it and saw that the Titleist script and number were a touch bolder-faced than they are on the urethane covered Pro V and AVX. I knew immediately that it wasn't my ball. I picked it up and saw it was a most recent generation NXT Tour S (which was replaced in 2018 with the new Tour Soft). My ball was found a few seconds later (5 yards further up). So, I threw the NXT in my cart console and finished up the hole with my AVX.

A few holes later, I hit a tee shot which felt funny coming off the clubface. It was with a good swing. The distance was decent, but the ball flight was different than I would have expected. It had an obvious fade, more so than normal when I fade the ball. Maybe 5-10 yards. (I wasn't trying to fade it.) I knew right away something was different. I felt my back left pocket and sure enough, my AVX was still comfortably sitting against my ass, nice and warm. I had inadvertently grabbed the NXT Tour S as I got out of the cart.

If I didn't regularly play an AVX everyday, I may not have given that ball flight a second thought, and just chalked it up to a too out to in swing, or slight cut across the ball. But, this game is about consistency. I had played 4 previous driver shots with pretty much the same swing off the tee and a similar ball flight between them all, which was either straight or a slight baby draw. Then I step up and hit a shot with a swing like I put on the other drives and get a little fade. I knew something was different even though I didn't feel like my swing or ball contact was different. I can usually feel a bad swing and expect to look up and see a ball flight that matches that swing. But on this drive, I expected to see it go just like the others before it. I was actually relieved to feel the AVX in my back pocket, which told me it was the ball, not the swing. Next time I hit driver, it was with the AVX ball. Straight and in the fairway. And felt like it should coming off the face.

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Re: Bawlz

Post by jasonfish11 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:15 am

jasonfish11 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:35 pm
To be clear I completely agree with this. What i do use my simulator for is to tell me what I should expect 67% (1 standard deviation) of the time when I hit my 8i. That is a shot that carries 157 yards and is slightly right of "center" with a dispersion of around 20 yards. It's an elliptical dispersion with short right and long left more likely than long right and short left. That is my 8i "shotgun" spread.
Ok, so a little proof I'm not entirely crazy. I have the day off to mourn our 41st president (the financial markets are closed). So I'm doing some bathroom work, but I also hit some balls. After warming up I hit 12 8i's and got rid of the 2 worst ones. Ok so not quite 1 SD this is 83% of the data not 67%. But this is 12 straight balls I hit w/ 8i which I typically don't do when I'm trying to get "data" on club performance.

Anyways I wasn't hitting the ball super well, but it's pretty standard for me. I had more of a draw bias today than normal but my carry was 156 my dispersion was a 46 yard diameter. I think of dispersion as distance from target, so I see it as a radius not a diameter which is why I said 20 yards above. My start line was 1.2 degrees right of center which is normal as I said above. Also short right and long left were my misses. The 2 I got rid of where shots that I let my arms get way behind me and the club face got left wide ass open, which is my typical really bad shot.

I have the simulator set at 50 degrees outside temp, so that might make up for the 1 yard of carry from my normal setting of 70 degrees.* It sure isn't the inconsistency of my obviously super consistent swing haha.

There is no way I'd know this information and know how to use it to my advantage if it weren't for having a simulator and getting to see it all the time. This along with google maps allows me to basically have a very specific and detailed plan of attack for any golf course. When I get there things might change due to weather, course conditions, etc. But knowing this information is only beneficial, and there is no way I could know this information while staying married and having a full time job, with out a simulator.


*note on temp reference, the balls are room temp and the ball temperature has more affect on distances than ambient temp. Ambient temperature has damn near 0 noticeable affect on shot characteristics (it's less than 1% difference in 20 degrees of temp). I've tested this when bored before, stat nerd.
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Re: Bawlz

Post by bkuehn1952 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:34 am

jasonfish11 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:15 am

*note on temp reference, the balls are room temp and the ball temperature has more affect on distances than ambient temp. Ambient temperature has damn near 0 noticeable affect on shot characteristics (it's less than 1% difference in 20 degrees of temp). I've tested this when bored before, stat nerd.
I have read articles in the past that state the opposite of your findings. In essence, the "experts" said ball temperature has negligible affect while the air temperature adds or subtracts roughly 2 yards of carry per 10 degree difference. Presumably they were talking about driver and other clubs would proportionally have a bit less loss (or gain) of distance.

I wonder if the science of this subject has changed?
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Re: Bawlz

Post by jasonfish11 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:29 pm

bkuehn1952 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:34 am
jasonfish11 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:15 am

*note on temp reference, the balls are room temp and the ball temperature has more affect on distances than ambient temp. Ambient temperature has damn near 0 noticeable affect on shot characteristics (it's less than 1% difference in 20 degrees of temp). I've tested this when bored before, stat nerd.
I have read articles in the past that state the opposite of your findings. In essence, the "experts" said ball temperature has negligible affect while the air temperature adds or subtracts roughly 2 yards of carry per 10 degree difference. Presumably they were talking about driver and other clubs would proportionally have a bit less loss (or gain) of distance.

I wonder if the science of this subject has changed?
If that is true then skytrak algorithm is off for air temp. A cool thing about skytrak is the ability to change the settings (humidity, temp, altitude and turf "firmness") and replay the last shot with the new settings. So I've messed around with 70 and 50 degrees and don't see any noticable difference. Maybe I'll test it more.


Also the only way I tested ball temp was put a ball in the fridge (35 degrees) for 2 hours. Not sure how realistic this is.
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Re: Bawlz

Post by GBOGEY » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:25 pm

I read recently that temperature has less effect on the ball itself than most people think, but that the combination of clothing we wear to stay warm and the lack of muscle flexibility in colder weather needs to be considered. In other words, if you think you lose 20 yards from 90 degrees to 45 degrees, half of that loss is resulting from clothing/swinging differently in colder weather.

You guys lost me with a lot of the detailed banter the last few days, but last night as I was sitting on the reading throne I reached over and picked up "Why You Suck at Golf" which is not a bad book and is somewhat entertaining. I just happen to open the book to a section on balls where it says: "you don't use the same golf ball" and then goes on to say, if you want consistency in your game how can you get it if you change balls all the time." I have to agree with that. I'm not sure that there's a huge difference in different balls but there must be some.

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Re: Bawlz

Post by jasonfish11 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:34 pm

This makes me feel better about my shot gun burst of an 8i.
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Re: Bawlz

Post by DougE » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:52 am

Not that I think many of you are regular Pro V1 users, but in case any of you are, and haven't heard yet, the new 2019 versions of the Pro V1 and Pro V1x are being released in a month or two. I was able to test the V1 (as a Team Titleist tester) this past summer. Honestly, having gotten so used to my AVX, I wasn't as aware of the differences between the present model Pro V1 and the future one, as I would have been if I'd been playing the Pro V all season. It did feel different off the tee than the present model, but I couldn't say if it was longer or the same. My AVX always feels longer. The new Pro V had similar spin and checking-power around the greens to me, as the old one. I do know it has received great reviews overall from the Team Titleist testers and many of the pros have already put one in play as of yesterday. There may have been some at the Hero last week as well. There is a lot of hype, as always when a new Pro V comes out.

The bigger news with the new Pro V is that it will finally be available in high-optic yellow, which MAY interest some of you (or not). Team Titleist members have been begging for that option for years and Titleist always said that due to the process they use for their covers, it wasn't in the cards. Then they found success with the AVX, which has a slightly different cover and is available in white or yellow. So, evidently, somehow they figured out how to get similar results with the Pro V. This may not sound like a big deal, but for Titleist, it truly is. They were opposed to a Tour-level yellow ball. It will be interesting to see if anyone on the PGA Tour plays a yellow version of the ProV. I would bet there will be some on the Senior Tour playing a yellow one this year. In fact, since the AVX seems to be liked more by older guys than young, 20-something bombers, I wouldn't be surprised to see a few yellow AVXs out there on the Senior Tour either.

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Re: Bawlz

Post by legitimatebeef » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:08 am

Yellow balls are fun. So are orange and green. I can't personally attest but the other colors are probably fun too. Golfers should be less dogmatic about silly stuff like that.
Build a bridge and get over it.

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Re: Bawlz

Post by legitimatebeef » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:13 am

:school Embed the tweets, looks much better and is functional too. People can click to see more of the discussion etc.

Build a bridge and get over it.

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