Random golf thoughts

Post Reply
User avatar
DougE
Posts: 2577
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:40 pm
Location: Maryland
dogs: 1
Contact:

Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by DougE » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:34 pm

IMO, slow pace of play is a result of a few things.

1. General lack of etiquette
2. Present-day generational attitudes (not caring about anyone else, but yourself, e.g., Millenials and Gen-Zs)
3. Older/senior generational attitudes (not caring about anyone else because you think you've earned the right (or paid your dues) to take as much time as you want.
4. Certain cultures, where competition to even grab a little extra air for yourself is cut-throat. Those from densely-populated areas. (Except Japan. For some reason, they seem to be very respectful of others in general.)
5. Playing courses you aren't able to handle from ANY set of tees, let alone shorter tees, during times the courses are busy.
6. Thinking you are Tiger Woods, particularly on the putting greens, reading every putt, from every angle, as if it's to win the Masters.
7. Not playing ready-golf.
8. Golf courses not willing to have their rangers piss off a golfer(s) by telling them they have to pick up and move forward or be removed.

I honestly think any golf course who chooses to enforce this rule will get MORE play and a BETTER level of players over time. I think a golf course should clearly state a pace of play policy and make it mandatory that you sign on and agree to abide by that policy or risk removal from the course.

As an example, if a ranger tells your group on a busy Saturday morning that you are a hole behind and you need to pick up the pace, that is warning number one. If within 2 holes, you have not caught up, that is warning number 2. After that point, the course has the right to demand you pick up your ball and skip a hole to get caught up. If again, you fall behind, the course must remove you. Maybe they can offer a small credit for the number of holes you did not get to play. Whatever.

Both the courses and the guests have to take the responsibility seriously. During lighter periods, certainly, they can be more flexible.

There should be reminder-signs every few holes highlighting the policy and warning of the potential for removal, which you signed on for when you agreed to play the course at check in.

It's really not that hard when everyone agrees to the rules. If you like to play at your own pace with no concern for others' time, maybe this course isn't the place for you. Conversely, the course should understand that you aren't necessarily that good for them either. It's that simple. And, the policy should not necessarily be how long it takes to play 18 holes, but more specific to losing pace when there is no reason to, other than you are just taking too long relative to those around you.

For busy times, there needs to be a commitment from both sides. Sign on the dotted line sir. You will be removed after 2 warnings. Warnings will be approved by the pro after discussion with the ranger, who will be following direct orders from management. He is just the messenger and time-keeper. Also, the signature of the golf course on that same contract says that they will enforce that rule to any slow group, which will BENEFIT the rest of the golfers. As long as you are one of THE REST, you should be happy to sign.

Also, the first group out must commit to finishing in 4 hours or less on a weekend morning. Dewsweepers like to be first because they don't want to wait on anyone, so they need to keep the pace up themselves or be required to let the second group play through when it becomes apparent that they are waiting on every shot. Then the original first group must keep up or be subject to removal just like any other group in the pack. As far as I'm concerned, the first group out on a weekend has the biggest responsibility of all groups. They are the pacesetters of the day. 4 hours or less. Period. It's up to the rangers to stay on top of everything else. Maybe the first group out should pay double, then get a 50% credit once they are in under 4 hours. Just a thought.

When you buy a ticket to a ballgame, there are rules on the back of that ticket which limit your ability to do a number of things once you are inside. That ticket is a contract and you can be removed if you don't abide by that contract. A green fee with a signature stating you agree to the terms of that particular golf course is the same thing and could solve a large portion of the pace of play problem. Basically, follow the rules or be removed. Just like any other sporting event.

I know, I'm rambling. I can go on and on. Yes, I think there are a number of ways to address the pace of play issue, but golf courses have to commit as much as the players do. Having rules that are not enforced doesn't do anything. If all public golf courses as a group could stand together in their commitment, pace of play is fixable.

User avatar
legitimatebeef
Posts: 7394
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:34 pm
Location: island off the coast of america
dogs: 1
Contact:

Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by legitimatebeef » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:43 pm

I am single-handedly responsible for introducing Ms Beef to golf, starting from zero. Not only technique but etiquette and general conduct. What this has reminded me of, is the challenge of completing 18 holes in 4.5 hours or less. To finish in that time is quite doable but it requires constant pushing, planning, vigilance for that entire time. Which tends to run counter to people's expectation of a round of golf as a leisurely activity.

Finishing in four or less requires a level of exertion and attention which I believe the average recreational golfer is neither capable of nor interested in. To finish fast one needs constant awareness of not only his own but his partners' actions; even little things like idle chit-chat need to be micromanaged. People don't like that shit. Last time out for example Ms Beef and I got paired with a solo shlub. At one point we had to play through a slow pair. While I was putting out, the shlub (who had already finished the hole) remained on the green sort of staring into space. I reminded him that he should go ahead to the next tee and get things moving so we can get out of the twosomes' way, since we are still in the process of playing through. He complied but I could tell he was put out because I had just told him what to do. In the span of four hours of golf on a full golf course, there are going to be numerous such instances. It's too much for ordinary people to handle cognitively.

This situation reminds me of road traffic. The only proven, scientific way of reducing traffic is to significantly restrict access by policy, forcing people into alternative transportation decisions. Trying to accommodate more traffic, by widening roads for instance, only encourages more driving and makes traffic worse. My point here is that people en masse cannot be gently nudged into compliance. You have to use force, inexorable force. And forcing the average golfer to finish in four or less is only going to make the average golfer miserable because it is beyond what he is comfortable with, mentally and physically. It'd be like opening up a running track at a park, but where only sprinting is allowed. That is, most of your potential participants would be excluded. In other words I believe many people would actively avoid a golf course that forced a time limit.
Build a bridge and get over it.

User avatar
jasonfish11
Posts: 3702
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:27 pm
Location: Virginia Beach
dogs: 2

Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by jasonfish11 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:17 pm

I think there is a lot more that can be done at the course without "kicking off" people.

That said to get to 4 hour max yes some people will need to be culled from the herd.

As for new golfers. My dad had me playing sub 4 hour rounds at the age of 5 on full length courses. Obviously I wouldn't play every shot as it lay. I would tee off from the red tees then if I didn't get it inside the 100 yard marker id pick up and tee off from the 100. Then if that wasn't enough id pick up and move to the next hole.

I think courses should make it known they are looking to fix pace of play. Start with things they can control outside of player pool. Make these changes known to the players.

I think just publicizing that you are working on your end will make players be more diligent on their end.
Keep it short stupid.

User avatar
jasonfish11
Posts: 3702
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:27 pm
Location: Virginia Beach
dogs: 2

Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by jasonfish11 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:14 pm

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/tommy- ... tion-sting

Got to say it, but don't commit crime in Polk county FL. Grady Jude will not only arrest you he'll do his best to humiliate you as well.

Here are one Grady Jude quotes.
- after a cop killer was found by police, they fired 110 rounds into the guy (he pulled a gun and was partially hidden). When asked why his officers felt the need to fire 110 rounds Grady Jude responded with "because we didn't have 111 rounds on us."

- when a neighboring city had a armed suspect in the attic of a house. This guy killed 2 police officers who tried to enter already. So they fired over 400 rounds into the attic then used a backhoe to tear the side of the house away. The perp was found dead from 8 gun shot wounds. Grady Jude responded with "8 hits out of 450 rounds, damn the St Pete pd needs to head to the shooting range."

Other notable things, Grady Jude has paid for a plane ticket out of his own pocket to pick up a suspect in Colorado after an online child porn sting. Colorado pd wouldn't arrest the guy but would give Jude authorization to do it himself.
Keep it short stupid.

User avatar
legitimatebeef
Posts: 7394
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:34 pm
Location: island off the coast of america
dogs: 1
Contact:

Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by legitimatebeef » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:46 pm

The Masters and the Open are the majorest events at the moment. US Open is somewhat in disarray right now and not as prestigious as it has been previously. Moving from NBC to Fox, from Johnny Miller to Azinger etc was a devastating downgrade, and besides that public simply don't respect the USGA much these days. The PGA Championship diminished its status by moving to three months earlier. Such a move would make any event seem suddenly a lot cheaper and more dispensable. And sorry to say I think the reputations of both these events have suffered somewhat from the success of Brooks Koepka. No disrespect obviously. Other tournaments will benefit from the diminution of the so-called majors, which let's face it are way overrated in their significance in 2020. Going forward you will see more significance given to regular PGA Tour wins, thanks in some part to the fanfare of Tiger chasing down Sam Snead and bringing his wins total into focus. One of the very biggest stars in golf today--Rickie--has zero major wins, and nobody gives a shit.
Build a bridge and get over it.

User avatar
DougE
Posts: 2577
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:40 pm
Location: Maryland
dogs: 1
Contact:

Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by DougE » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:09 pm

The US Open is still a big deal, but I agree to a certain extent. It's no longer perceived to be in the same league as The Open IMO, but still a step up from the PGA Championship. Frankly, I think the Players is bigger than the PGA as far as fan interest goes. I feel the Masters is clearly the most prestigious of all with The Open in second place. The US Open has been screwed up so many times by the USGA it's lost some of its credibility. Crazy circus golf is fun to watch every now and then, but it doesn't belong in the US Open in many golfer's opinions, of which I am one. If the USGA wants their US Open to once again get the respect it desires from the golf world, they should let the PGA Tour handle the set up of the course for them.

User avatar
jfurr
Posts: 2782
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:37 am
Location: South Carolina

Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by jfurr » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:36 pm

I'm going to do my buddy trip at the beach again this year, and I want to win the damn thing this time. I really think if I can hit the fairways and not duff my chips I have a chance.
Everything Sucks

User avatar
jfurr
Posts: 2782
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:37 am
Location: South Carolina

Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by jfurr » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:50 pm

Win a trip to Monday after the Masters with Hootie. You'll see my buddy play music at the party Saturday night. I might try to make it.

https://www.prizeo.com/campaigns/hootie ... CACKP_LjvQ
Everything Sucks

User avatar
DougE
Posts: 2577
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:40 pm
Location: Maryland
dogs: 1
Contact:

How about some golf talk?

Post by DougE » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:50 am

bkuehn1952 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:41 am
I haven't carried a 4 iron in a decade.
Speaking of 4 irons (as BK just did in the "Describe your best shot of the month" thread), I'm curious, who else here plays a 4i (or even a 3i) and why or why not?"

Personally, I absolutely LOVE my 4i. However, up until a year or so ago, before I made some swing adjustments, I could not hit one with any consistency, so didn't carry one. Now, it is one of my favorite clubs to hit, depending on the lie.

I really noticed my swing was getting better and more efficient, probably sometime early in 2018, when I began to see and feel the ball jumping off the clubface of my longer irons more regularly, the same way it did with my shorter ones. That had never been the case before. My distances increased too. My swing speed, ball speed and smash factor are all up. When I put AP3 5, 6 and 7 irons in my bag (which were considered "players" distance irons), I realized I could hit my 5 iron consistently well. Prior to that, I was using a bulkier-looking game improvement AP1 for a 6 and 5 iron and using blade-style players, AP2s from PW-7i. I always hit the smaller blades well, but not the GI-style 5 and 6 irons, which I had decided to try, thinking they might give me some added forgiveness in the longer irons.

In any case, once I replaced the AP1s with new AP3 5-7 irons, and honed my swing, I was hitting my 5i about 175-180 yds, consistently, which was early last year. The next club up in my bag was a 19* hybrid. There was a big distance gap between the two. 20-25 yards. My course has three par 3s that all play 170-205 from the blue tees, regularly into the wind. Very often the 5 iron wasn't enough and the hybrid was too much. Trying to take something off a hybrid usually resulted in a hook for me. Since I was hitting my 5i so well, I decided to try adding a 4i to the bag. I figured I would customize it a bit to play a little more like a hybrid. So I had an AP3 4 iron built with a Kuro Kage 85 gram shaft (my other irons are steel shafted), with similar bend characteristics to my 19* hybrid. I loved it.

Late last year, when I bought my newest irons, the Titleist T200s (also a players-style iron), I did not get a 4i with the set, purposely. I trusted the AP3 custom 4i so much that I just kept that one. I play it as my 180-190 yard club off the tee and usually use it from the fairway or rough with a good lie, at distances of 175 to 190 max.

I love that 4i. BUT, I recently added a 21*, 818H2 small-headed hybrid. I found that the 4i is not great out of deeper rough and figured the smaller headed hybrid would be a good alternative. I am having great success with the new hybrid, but would rather use the 4 iron off a tee, as I tend to hook the hybrid for some reason off a tee. (Not so much off turf.)

My dilemma now is that I don't have room for both the hybrids and a 4 iron in the bag. So, I have been leaving the 19* hybrid out since we got into posting season on the 15th. I hit the 21* hybrid about 5 yards shorter than the 19*, on average. 195-200 average. Going forward, my intention is to play two of those three clubs in a rotating format based on the conditions of the rough and whichever club is working best at the time. All three feel great in my hands and give me confidence standing over a ball with a good lie. I think I get the most satisfaction out of puring the 4 iron, though. It impresses my playing partners. Especially the older ones who gave up on long irons long ago. The good younger players just see it as a good shot by an old guy.

So, again, who plays a 4i and why or why not?

I miss golf. :wah

User avatar
bkuehn1952
Posts: 2991
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:08 pm
Location: The Mitten-Shaped Corona Hotspot
dogs: 0
Contact:

How about some golf talk?

Post by bkuehn1952 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:53 am

No 4 iron for me. I decided some time ago that an additional fairway wood/hybrid would play the role. I don't think I have had a 3 iron in over 20 years.
Let's Play 36
GHIN Handicap: 7.8 … 9.2 … Let’s just say I am around a 14!

User avatar
legitimatebeef
Posts: 7394
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:34 pm
Location: island off the coast of america
dogs: 1
Contact:

Re: How about some golf talk?

Post by legitimatebeef » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:42 am

I miss those old golf guys @jfurr and maybe even @bryan k.
Build a bridge and get over it.

User avatar
bkuehn1952
Posts: 2991
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:08 pm
Location: The Mitten-Shaped Corona Hotspot
dogs: 0
Contact:

Re: How about some golf talk?

Post by bkuehn1952 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:25 pm

legitimatebeef wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:42 am
I miss those old golf guys @jfurr and maybe even @bryan k.
Yes, we have had a few people cycle through this site. Now and then I "bug" certain missing in action people but rarely ever hear anything.
Let's Play 36
GHIN Handicap: 7.8 … 9.2 … Let’s just say I am around a 14!

User avatar
GBOGEY
Posts: 995
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:22 pm

Re: How about some golf talk?

Post by GBOGEY » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:22 pm

DougE wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:50 am
So, again, who plays a 4i and why or why not?
When I took up golf in 2009 - yes I started playing in the last recession, but that's another story - I went and bought my first clubs - a driver, 3W, and set of irons 4i-9i, PW, SW. Like most new golfers I struggled with longer clubs and eventually bought a 4H to replace the 4i. I probably learned about hybrids from oob forums. With a little practice, I became much better with the 4H than the 4i so I really have never hit a 4i since except for the occasional rental set (there's one rental 4i that sticks in my mind - a long par 3 to a couple of feet). I subsequently bought a 3H. One day I borrowed a 5W and hit it much better than my 3W off the deck, so I bought one of those as well. Eventually the 3W got shelved and the 5W (really more like a 4W), 3H, 4H became my makeup. My pro in NJ had some guidelines based upon swing speed / 7i distance. Those guidelines said I should start hybrids with a 4H. When I upgraded my irons, I bought my set starting at 5i.

All that said, I've always had a love / hate relationship with my 5i. The good ones are really good, the others not as good. I'm probably more consistent with my 4H than my 5i. If I have a choice of which club to hit, I pick the 4H. I've thought for years about replacing the 5i with a 5H but have never moved forward with it. The other idea I have, which is probably a better one, is to adjust my 4H (it's adjustable) to 25 from 23, ditch the 5i, and find a 3W to use as a driver alternative. I use the 5W off the tee but I'm probably giving up 10-15 yards as compared to a 3W. Of course, this requires me to find a 3W I can hit regularly.

User avatar
legitimatebeef
Posts: 7394
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:34 pm
Location: island off the coast of america
dogs: 1
Contact:

Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by legitimatebeef » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:40 pm

I have a 4i and a 3i. My reasoning is that I don't play for anything meaningful, and thus I'd rather do things the hard way. :puke That is to say, if I can groove a decent swing, I should be able to use long irons in theory. I did capitulate to my own suckage a little bit and switch to a cavity back 3i though.

I know the hybrid produces more consistent results all across the clubface, but come on, hitting a ball flush with an iron feels way better than with a hybrid. Looks better in the air too.
Build a bridge and get over it.

User avatar
DougE
Posts: 2577
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:40 pm
Location: Maryland
dogs: 1
Contact:

Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by DougE » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:18 pm

@GBOGEY, I'm curious, what's your 7i distance, Phil? I'm guessing similar to mine, which is 155-160 yards in-season off a tee. If so, i believe you should have plenty of SS to play a 5i.

Also, my 3W gets a lot of use, mostly off the fairway. Generally, I hit it consistently well. The only time I use it off a tee at my home club is if I play the white tees, which is rarely (though do so on occasion to be sociable with my group sometimes or if the wind is blowing 30). I'm not sure I could give up my 3W, even if I needed an extra wedge on a particular day. I'd rather take one of my two hybrids out, along with my 4i if I needed the extra wedge. My 19* hybrid (set at 18*) goes as far as my 5W went (when I played one), with a softer landing most of the time. Far more versatile for me.

We may have discussed 3Ws before, but if you don't hit them consistently well off tight lies, consider one of the Ping G-series 3Ws if you haven't already. Very low profile at the ball. Simple to hit off the deck. I played a 16.5* G20 3W 5 or 6 years back, along with a Titleist 913F 16.5* 3W. Had them both in the bag. I used the Ping from the fairway and the Titleist from loftier lies. Of course, I have since mastered the 3W and only use one now, a 15* Titleist 917F.

User avatar
DougE
Posts: 2577
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:40 pm
Location: Maryland
dogs: 1
Contact:

Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by DougE » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:24 pm

legitimatebeef wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:40 pm

I know the hybrid produces more consistent results all across the clubface, but come on, hitting a ball flush with an iron feels way better than with a hybrid.
Agreed.
legitimatebeef wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:40 pm
Looks better in the air too.
Depends.

User avatar
GBOGEY
Posts: 995
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:22 pm

Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by GBOGEY » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:16 pm

legitimatebeef wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:40 pm
That is to say, if I can groove a decent swing, I should be able to use long irons in theory. I did capitulate to my own suckage a little bit and switch to a cavity back 3i though.
I think it has more to do with swing speed than ability.

My 7i typically plays 150-155. What my guy said is, if you hit your 7i 150, play 4h, 160, play 3h, 170, play whatever you want.

I could never get a 3W off the deck well enough to believe in it. That said, I didn't have a great 3W at the time. I at times groove my Cobra 5W so well that I'm pretty confident that I could hit a similar 3W well. Probably something I would play with if I had the time. Instead I'd rather work on mastering what I have right now.

User avatar
jfurr
Posts: 2782
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:37 am
Location: South Carolina

Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by jfurr » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:00 pm

Sorry y'all - finally getting a minute aside to catch up and log in. The shutdown has me working hard in IT getting folks working remotely.

I had a 4 iron in my old old TM Burners and in my old Pings. I could hit them okay off a tee but never that good off the deck. My 4 hybrid though is my favorite long club. It's a old Ping i15 and I need to replace it but haven't found something yet. On shorter par 4's or where I need a precise tee shot the hybrid 4 is my go-to.

So for a long time, the make up on the top end of my set goes 5i, 4h, 5w, Dr

I sometimes add a 3h or a 3w depending on which wedges are in time out, and where I'm playing
Everything Sucks

Post Reply