Random golf thoughts

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DougE
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Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by DougE » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:34 pm

IMO, slow pace of play is a result of a few things.

1. General lack of etiquette
2. Present-day generational attitudes (not caring about anyone else, but yourself, e.g., Millenials and Gen-Zs)
3. Older/senior generational attitudes (not caring about anyone else because you think you've earned the right (or paid your dues) to take as much time as you want.
4. Certain cultures, where competition to even grab a little extra air for yourself is cut-throat. Those from densely-populated areas. (Except Japan. For some reason, they seem to be very respectful of others in general.)
5. Playing courses you aren't able to handle from ANY set of tees, let alone shorter tees, during times the courses are busy.
6. Thinking you are Greatest PGA TOUR Champion of All-Time Tiger Woods, particularly on the putting greens, reading every putt, from every angle, as if it's to win the Masters.
7. Not playing ready-golf.
8. Golf courses not willing to have their rangers piss off a golfer(s) by telling them they have to pick up and move forward or be removed.

I honestly think any golf course who chooses to enforce this rule will get MORE play and a BETTER level of players over time. I think a golf course should clearly state a pace of play policy and make it mandatory that you sign on and agree to abide by that policy or risk removal from the course.

As an example, if a ranger tells your group on a busy Saturday morning that you are a hole behind and you need to pick up the pace, that is warning number one. If within 2 holes, you have not caught up, that is warning number 2. After that point, the course has the right to demand you pick up your ball and skip a hole to get caught up. If again, you fall behind, the course must remove you. Maybe they can offer a small credit for the number of holes you did not get to play. Whatever.

Both the courses and the guests have to take the responsibility seriously. During lighter periods, certainly, they can be more flexible.

There should be reminder-signs every few holes highlighting the policy and warning of the potential for removal, which you signed on for when you agreed to play the course at check in.

It's really not that hard when everyone agrees to the rules. If you like to play at your own pace with no concern for others' time, maybe this course isn't the place for you. Conversely, the course should understand that you aren't necessarily that good for them either. It's that simple. And, the policy should not necessarily be how long it takes to play 18 holes, but more specific to losing pace when there is no reason to, other than you are just taking too long relative to those around you.

For busy times, there needs to be a commitment from both sides. Sign on the dotted line sir. You will be removed after 2 warnings. Warnings will be approved by the pro after discussion with the ranger, who will be following direct orders from management. He is just the messenger and time-keeper. Also, the signature of the golf course on that same contract says that they will enforce that rule to any slow group, which will BENEFIT the rest of the golfers. As long as you are one of THE REST, you should be happy to sign.

Also, the first group out must commit to finishing in 4 hours or less on a weekend morning. Dewsweepers like to be first because they don't want to wait on anyone, so they need to keep the pace up themselves or be required to let the second group play through when it becomes apparent that they are waiting on every shot. Then the original first group must keep up or be subject to removal just like any other group in the pack. As far as I'm concerned, the first group out on a weekend has the biggest responsibility of all groups. They are the pacesetters of the day. 4 hours or less. Period. It's up to the rangers to stay on top of everything else. Maybe the first group out should pay double, then get a 50% credit once they are in under 4 hours. Just a thought.

When you buy a ticket to a ballgame, there are rules on the back of that ticket which limit your ability to do a number of things once you are inside. That ticket is a contract and you can be removed if you don't abide by that contract. A green fee with a signature stating you agree to the terms of that particular golf course is the same thing and could solve a large portion of the pace of play problem. Basically, follow the rules or be removed. Just like any other sporting event.

I know, I'm rambling. I can go on and on. Yes, I think there are a number of ways to address the pace of play issue, but golf courses have to commit as much as the players do. Having rules that are not enforced doesn't do anything. If all public golf courses as a group could stand together in their commitment, pace of play is fixable.

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legitimatebeef
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Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by legitimatebeef » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:43 pm

I am single-handedly responsible for introducing Ms Beef to golf, starting from zero. Not only technique but etiquette and general conduct. What this has reminded me of, is the challenge of completing 18 holes in 4.5 hours or less. To finish in that time is quite doable but it requires constant pushing, planning, vigilance for that entire time. Which tends to run counter to people's expectation of a round of golf as a leisurely activity.

Finishing in four or less requires a level of exertion and attention which I believe the average recreational golfer is neither capable of nor interested in. To finish fast one needs constant awareness of not only his own but his partners' actions; even little things like idle chit-chat need to be micromanaged. People don't like that shit. Last time out for example Ms Beef and I got paired with a solo shlub. At one point we had to play through a slow pair. While I was putting out, the shlub (who had already finished the hole) remained on the green sort of staring into space. I reminded him that he should go ahead to the next tee and get things moving so we can get out of the twosomes' way, since we are still in the process of playing through. He complied but I could tell he was put out because I had just told him what to do. In the span of four hours of golf on a full golf course, there are going to be numerous such instances. It's too much for ordinary people to handle cognitively.

This situation reminds me of road traffic. The only proven, scientific way of reducing traffic is to significantly restrict access by policy, forcing people into alternative transportation decisions. Trying to accommodate more traffic, by widening roads for instance, only encourages more driving and makes traffic worse. My point here is that people en masse cannot be gently nudged into compliance. You have to use force, inexorable force. And forcing the average golfer to finish in four or less is only going to make the average golfer miserable because it is beyond what he is comfortable with, mentally and physically. It'd be like opening up a running track at a park, but where only sprinting is allowed. That is, most of your potential participants would be excluded. In other words I believe many people would actively avoid a golf course that forced a time limit.
Build a bridge and get over it.

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jasonfish11
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Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by jasonfish11 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:17 pm

I think there is a lot more that can be done at the course without "kicking off" people.

That said to get to 4 hour max yes some people will need to be culled from the herd.

As for new golfers. My dad had me playing sub 4 hour rounds at the age of 5 on full length courses. Obviously I wouldn't play every shot as it lay. I would tee off from the red tees then if I didn't get it inside the 100 yard marker id pick up and tee off from the 100. Then if that wasn't enough id pick up and move to the next hole.

I think courses should make it known they are looking to fix pace of play. Start with things they can control outside of player pool. Make these changes known to the players.

I think just publicizing that you are working on your end will make players be more diligent on their end.
Keep it short stupid.

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Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by jasonfish11 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:14 pm

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/tommy- ... tion-sting

Got to say it, but don't commit crime in Polk county FL. Grady Jude will not only arrest you he'll do his best to humiliate you as well.

Here are one Grady Jude quotes.
- after a cop killer was found by police, they fired 110 rounds into the guy (he pulled a gun and was partially hidden). When asked why his officers felt the need to fire 110 rounds Grady Jude responded with "because we didn't have 111 rounds on us."

- when a neighboring city had a armed suspect in the attic of a house. This guy killed 2 police officers who tried to enter already. So they fired over 400 rounds into the attic then used a backhoe to tear the side of the house away. The perp was found dead from 8 gun shot wounds. Grady Jude responded with "8 hits out of 450 rounds, damn the St Pete pd needs to head to the shooting range."

Other notable things, Grady Jude has paid for a plane ticket out of his own pocket to pick up a suspect in Colorado after an online child porn sting. Colorado pd wouldn't arrest the guy but would give Jude authorization to do it himself.
Keep it short stupid.

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legitimatebeef
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Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by legitimatebeef » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:46 pm

The Masters and the Open are the majorest events at the moment. US Open is somewhat in disarray right now and not as prestigious as it has been previously. Moving from NBC to Fox, from Johnny Miller to Azinger etc was a devastating downgrade, and besides that public simply don't respect the USGA much these days. The PGA Championship diminished its status by moving to three months earlier. Such a move would make any event seem suddenly a lot cheaper and more dispensable. And sorry to say I think the reputations of both these events have suffered somewhat from the success of Brooks Koepka. No disrespect obviously. Other tournaments will benefit from the diminution of the so-called majors, which let's face it are way overrated in their significance in 2020. Going forward you will see more significance given to regular PGA Tour wins, thanks in some part to the fanfare of Greatest PGA TOUR Champion of All-Time Tiger chasing down Sam Snead and bringing his wins total into focus. One of the very biggest stars in golf today--Rickie--has zero major wins, and nobody gives a shit.
Build a bridge and get over it.

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DougE
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Re: Random golf thoughts

Post by DougE » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:09 pm

The US Open is still a big deal, but I agree to a certain extent. It's no longer perceived to be in the same league as The Open IMO, but still a step up from the PGA Championship. Frankly, I think the Players is bigger than the PGA as far as fan interest goes. I feel the Masters is clearly the most prestigious of all with The Open in second place. The US Open has been screwed up so many times by the USGA it's lost some of its credibility. Crazy circus golf is fun to watch every now and then, but it doesn't belong in the US Open in many golfer's opinions, of which I am one. If the USGA wants their US Open to once again get the respect it desires from the golf world, they should let the PGA Tour handle the set up of the course for them.

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